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re: Would you change churches
Posted on 5/10/16 at 9:08 am to mrbroker
Posted on 5/10/16 at 9:08 am to mrbroker
Absolutely.
The church today is often too sin-focused. I would have absolutely no problem with a pastor who admitted to an affair (homo or hetero for that matter) on the pulpit, if it was done in a way that expressed regret. Obviously he might want to take some time away but I would welcome him back to the pulpit.
But if he announced he was a practicing homosexual and had no plan to give that up, I'd have a big problem with it.... just as I would have a big problem if he said he was having a heterosexual affair out of wedlock and had no plans on stopping that.
Pastors sin just like everyone else. But its the condition of their heart that matters most. Openly living a life that is contrary to what the Bible teaches shows that pastor's heart is not in the right place, IMO.
The church today is often too sin-focused. I would have absolutely no problem with a pastor who admitted to an affair (homo or hetero for that matter) on the pulpit, if it was done in a way that expressed regret. Obviously he might want to take some time away but I would welcome him back to the pulpit.
But if he announced he was a practicing homosexual and had no plan to give that up, I'd have a big problem with it.... just as I would have a big problem if he said he was having a heterosexual affair out of wedlock and had no plans on stopping that.
Pastors sin just like everyone else. But its the condition of their heart that matters most. Openly living a life that is contrary to what the Bible teaches shows that pastor's heart is not in the right place, IMO.
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Posted on 5/10/16 at 9:12 am to kywildcatfanone
quote:
You chart is quite inaccurate, but it's cute.
I'd be curious to hear how.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 9:34 am to Supravol22
I disagree with the chart, but it is humorous... and I think it opens up a debate that is healthy for the church. Here's the thing....
The modern day church is so focused on sin, and its actually contrary to the true gospel. The true gospel should never lead to conversations among believers about sin, doing right, not doing wrong, etc.
Jesus died on the cross to take care of everyone's sins (Romans 6:10). It clearly says in scripture that once we are in Christ, God remembers our sins no more (Hebrews 8:12). He cast our sins as far as the east is from the west (Psalm 103:12). And lastly, God is no longer counting our sins against us (2 Cor. 5:19). All because of Jesus' sacrifice!! That is how much he loves us!
I do not understand Christians who portray our God as a judgmental God who is tracking our good deeds and bad deeds... Many people falsely believe that God will punish us for bad behavior. But this is in direct contradiction to the word of God. Jesus took all of our punishment so that we could have his righteousness!
Being "righteous" is sort of like being pregnant. You can't be partly righteous, just as you can't be partly pregnant. You are either righteous, or you are not. Righteousness basically means "right standing" with God. And God clearly states that if we believe on Jesus, through faith (Romans 3:22), we have the righteousness of Christ (2 Cor. 5:21).
How can God punish the righteous? He sees us as perfect because we are covered in the blood.
This was all foreshadowed in the book of Exodus. When God sent the death angel to kill the first born sons, he passed over all those who had blood smeared on the door. It didn't say he examined if they were good people who went to church, tithed, adhered from sin, etc. If they were covered in the blood, they were saved.
Now as believers we are covered in the blood. We have the righteousness of Christ, and that is what God sees when he sees us.
So if God is not focused on our sins, why should we be so focused on sin? The truth is, the more focus we put on NOT doing something, we are actually more likely to do it. The more we focus on Jesus, the more likely our flesh will live like Jesus on this earth.
So that brings us back to the chart...
The Bible teaches us in Leviticus, and Genesis, that God clearly does not think homosexuality is a healthy lifestyle. We know this because it displeased God.... and you are correct, God also felt eating bacon was probably not a good thing. And guess what? Few doctors would say to their patients, "You need to add more bacon to your diet."
I disagree with homosexuality, because I do not think it is a healthy lifestyle. I do not think it is healthy for society or for a family.
But know this: Homosexuality is not a disqualifier to receive the love of Jesus and his righteousness. It is absolutely possible for homosexuals to be Christians. But I believe as they focus on Jesus and receive his grace and goodness, that desire for an unhealthy lifestyle will fade away. God will deal with it in his own way, and it is not in a wrathful way. He will lovingly change that person's heart and desires.
It's not our job as a church to tell people how to behave. We are to point them to Jesus and his love and let God handle everything else.
The modern day church is so focused on sin, and its actually contrary to the true gospel. The true gospel should never lead to conversations among believers about sin, doing right, not doing wrong, etc.
Jesus died on the cross to take care of everyone's sins (Romans 6:10). It clearly says in scripture that once we are in Christ, God remembers our sins no more (Hebrews 8:12). He cast our sins as far as the east is from the west (Psalm 103:12). And lastly, God is no longer counting our sins against us (2 Cor. 5:19). All because of Jesus' sacrifice!! That is how much he loves us!
I do not understand Christians who portray our God as a judgmental God who is tracking our good deeds and bad deeds... Many people falsely believe that God will punish us for bad behavior. But this is in direct contradiction to the word of God. Jesus took all of our punishment so that we could have his righteousness!
Being "righteous" is sort of like being pregnant. You can't be partly righteous, just as you can't be partly pregnant. You are either righteous, or you are not. Righteousness basically means "right standing" with God. And God clearly states that if we believe on Jesus, through faith (Romans 3:22), we have the righteousness of Christ (2 Cor. 5:21).
How can God punish the righteous? He sees us as perfect because we are covered in the blood.
This was all foreshadowed in the book of Exodus. When God sent the death angel to kill the first born sons, he passed over all those who had blood smeared on the door. It didn't say he examined if they were good people who went to church, tithed, adhered from sin, etc. If they were covered in the blood, they were saved.
Now as believers we are covered in the blood. We have the righteousness of Christ, and that is what God sees when he sees us.
So if God is not focused on our sins, why should we be so focused on sin? The truth is, the more focus we put on NOT doing something, we are actually more likely to do it. The more we focus on Jesus, the more likely our flesh will live like Jesus on this earth.
So that brings us back to the chart...
The Bible teaches us in Leviticus, and Genesis, that God clearly does not think homosexuality is a healthy lifestyle. We know this because it displeased God.... and you are correct, God also felt eating bacon was probably not a good thing. And guess what? Few doctors would say to their patients, "You need to add more bacon to your diet."
I disagree with homosexuality, because I do not think it is a healthy lifestyle. I do not think it is healthy for society or for a family.
But know this: Homosexuality is not a disqualifier to receive the love of Jesus and his righteousness. It is absolutely possible for homosexuals to be Christians. But I believe as they focus on Jesus and receive his grace and goodness, that desire for an unhealthy lifestyle will fade away. God will deal with it in his own way, and it is not in a wrathful way. He will lovingly change that person's heart and desires.
It's not our job as a church to tell people how to behave. We are to point them to Jesus and his love and let God handle everything else.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 9:36 am to The Spleen
quote:For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
every mention of homosexuality in the Bible are in the Old Testament. The only mention of it in the New Testament is rather ambiguous.
Romans 1:26-27. doesn't sound very ambiguous to me
Posted on 5/10/16 at 9:39 am to mrbroker
yes
Posted on 5/10/16 at 9:40 am to kywildcatfanone
quote:
You chart is quite inaccurate, but it's cute and the discussion was on homosexuality, not gay marriage, but glad you had that in your holster.
I was going to say this but you already took care of it.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 9:51 am to airfernando
quote:
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:26-27. doesn't sound very ambiguous to me
There are different interpetations. That's what makes it ambiguous.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 9:52 am to mrbroker
Perhaps.
Perhaps not.
Perhaps not.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 9:59 am to pvilleguru
quote:
There are different interpetations.
The Book of Romans is also the writings of Paul. It's also believed by some scholars that these specific passages were added later by other writers, either intentionally or through mistakes in translation.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 10:00 am to Old Sarge
quote:
Homosexuality is spoken about in Scripture. I would hope a pastor who chooses this lifestyle would remove himself/herself voluntarily. If not, then I would expect the church leaders to do so, and if none of that occurred, I would look to go elsewhere.
This, you can't lead a church while choosing to embrace a sinful lifestyle in willful disobedience of God
100% spot on.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 10:15 am to Supravol22
The New Testament says that homosexuality is a “shameful lust” (Romans 1:26), a “shameful act,” an abandonment of “natural relations” (Romans 1:27), a “wrongdoing” (1 Corinthians 6:9), and “sexual immorality and perversion” (Jude 1:7). Homosexuality carries a “due penalty” (Romans 1:27), “is contrary to the sound doctrine” (1 Timothy 1:10), and is listed among the sins that bar people from the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9). Despite the attempts of some to downplay these verses, the Bible could not be clearer that homosexuality is a sin against God.
Yes, if the pastor was willfully and unapologetically engaging in a homosexual lifestyle, i would leave. Just as i would leave if he was an unapologetic adulterer, alcoholic, porn addict, or any other type of lifestyle that is in direct conflict with Christianity.
Struggling with and repenting from something isnt the same as unashamedly indulging in it.
Yes, if the pastor was willfully and unapologetically engaging in a homosexual lifestyle, i would leave. Just as i would leave if he was an unapologetic adulterer, alcoholic, porn addict, or any other type of lifestyle that is in direct conflict with Christianity.
Struggling with and repenting from something isnt the same as unashamedly indulging in it.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 10:19 am to mrbroker
It is amazing how so many christian people have become hypnotized by gays and abortion while completely eschewing everything else in the bible that they don't agree with that might apply to them.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 10:24 am to Robert Goulet
quote:
while completely eschewing everything else in the bible
Example?
Posted on 5/10/16 at 10:29 am to Robert Goulet
quote:
It is amazing how so many christian people have become hypnotized by gays and abortion while completely eschewing everything else in the bible that they don't agree with that might apply to them.
That's quite an assumption
Posted on 5/10/16 at 10:35 am to JustGetItRight
Why isn't anyone as vocal about being overweight? That is also mentioned in the bible a few times and is much more of a danger to this country than gay people.
I have not seen a crusade against obesity or kicking pastors out of the pulpit for being fat. Have you?
I have not seen a crusade against obesity or kicking pastors out of the pulpit for being fat. Have you?
Posted on 5/10/16 at 10:37 am to mrbroker
Imagine, you're taken on a cosmic journey, able to look at the expansive universe which is incomprehensibly large. In fact, we can't even observe it completely with the most powerful instruments we have to date.
Imagine God taking you on this trip, because in reality, He is forever and you could spend your entire afterlife, your astral body, going around the entire universe, exploring every planet and crevice but not being able to interact with it.
Imagine how many years it would take, even if you had a superprocesser for a mind and you could travel at light speed. Just for reference, it would take you a hundred thousand years just to travel from one side of OUR galaxy (The Milky Way) to the other without exploring any part of it.
There are about 125 billion galaxies in the universe that we can see, so it could take you trillions of years and you would never finish. It's okay, God has stopped time, relative to you, so that you could spend your eternity playing with the stars.
You marvel how humans have frozen in place while you take your time to study each and every new planet with your newfound powers. "It's okay, you have your entire astral afterlife, go ahead.", God says to you. Discovering the deepest oceans, the tallest volcanoes and even different forms of life, you take your sweet time enjoying every part of it.
One day, you finish and you're approaching the gates of heaven, still not comprehending how God could have created such an expansive and terrifyingly massive universe -- as before unfathomable -- you want to ask God how He did it.
In the faint distance you hear the sound of 'cuk cuk cuk', seeing God erecting a tiny little sign outside the gates, hammering it in.
"God, I need to ask you, how did you come up with this --"
You read the sign, "No figs Allowed..."
Imagine God taking you on this trip, because in reality, He is forever and you could spend your entire afterlife, your astral body, going around the entire universe, exploring every planet and crevice but not being able to interact with it.
Imagine how many years it would take, even if you had a superprocesser for a mind and you could travel at light speed. Just for reference, it would take you a hundred thousand years just to travel from one side of OUR galaxy (The Milky Way) to the other without exploring any part of it.
There are about 125 billion galaxies in the universe that we can see, so it could take you trillions of years and you would never finish. It's okay, God has stopped time, relative to you, so that you could spend your eternity playing with the stars.
You marvel how humans have frozen in place while you take your time to study each and every new planet with your newfound powers. "It's okay, you have your entire astral afterlife, go ahead.", God says to you. Discovering the deepest oceans, the tallest volcanoes and even different forms of life, you take your sweet time enjoying every part of it.
One day, you finish and you're approaching the gates of heaven, still not comprehending how God could have created such an expansive and terrifyingly massive universe -- as before unfathomable -- you want to ask God how He did it.
In the faint distance you hear the sound of 'cuk cuk cuk', seeing God erecting a tiny little sign outside the gates, hammering it in.
"God, I need to ask you, how did you come up with this --"
You read the sign, "No figs Allowed..."
Posted on 5/10/16 at 10:39 am to Robert Goulet
I find it more amazing that some "Christians" pick and choose values that they adhere to and use them as ammo to attack others for the sole purpose of making themselves feel superior to others.
This post was edited on 5/10/16 at 10:40 am
Posted on 5/10/16 at 10:42 am to Projectpat
quote:
I find it more amazing that some "Christians" pick and choose values that they adhere to and use them as ammo to attack others for the sole purpose of making themselves feel superior to others.
This is what I was getting at. America's version of christianity is pretty far off from the bible I've read. It is cherry-picked to death and creates more of a divide than it does help matters.
Posted on 5/10/16 at 10:43 am to Projectpat
quote:
I find it more amazing that some "Christians" pick and choose values that they adhere to and use them as ammo to attack others for the sole purpose of making themselves feel superior to others.
Kinda like atheists that select a sentence or part of sentence and say "SEE THERE, I TOLD YOU"......congrats stupid people come in all sizes, shapes, colors, gender & religious beliefs.......oh yeah we already knew this
Posted on 5/10/16 at 10:43 am to Wtodd
quote:
That's quite an assumption
Perhaps. I am only going off of my own empirical data.
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