re: Welfare. Discussion starts here, let's see where it takes us.

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There are about 6 times the number of white folks in this country

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So? When you take the total population and the total number of whites and blacks on welfare, the number is about even.

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The war on poverty and the war on drugs haven't done black folks any favors.

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I think many blacks would disagree that the war on poverty hasn't done them any favors. Has it done some bad? Sure, any program that large and wide-sweeping is going to have some negatives.

The war on drugs has been a farce, and it has especially hit the black population, no question. One interesting, perhaps somewhat unintentional, consequence of the war on drugs is black on black gun crime has steadily gone down since the crack wars of the 80's. But still, in study after study, results have shown that whites use drugs an equal amount of blacks, but blacks have been charges with drug crimes at a much higher rate.

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There are about 6 times the number of white folks in this country


So? When you take the total population and the total number of whites and blacks on welfare, the number is about even.

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Trolling? You gotta be.

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The war on poverty and the war on drugs haven't done black folks any favors.


I think many blacks would disagree that the war on poverty hasn't done them any favors.

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I have a more optimistic view of humanity than you do.

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Has it done some bad? Sure, any program that large and wide-sweeping is going to have some negatives.

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It's an entitlement trap.

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The war on drugs has been a farce, and it has especially hit the black population, no question. One interesting, perhaps somewhat unintentional, consequence of the war on drugs is black on black gun crime has steadily gone down since the crack wars of the 80's. have been charges

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Probably because we have a larger percentage (not sure if you'll get that based on your previous statement) of people in prison than any other nation. We hate freedom.

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Trolling? You gotta be.


No, simply pointing out that there are roughly the same number of whites and black on welfare.

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Right, but the percentage of population makes it relevant.

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I have a more optimistic view of humanity than you do.


I'll put it this way. I think more blacks have been able to gain economic independence due to assistance they received through welfare than there are black that have become dependent upon welfare and resigned themselves to remaining on it.

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Liberals are constantly complaining about income inequity which strangely became larger since the war on poverty began. The system is set up to keep people in, not give them a hand up.

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It's an entitlement trap.


Not for everyone.

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It's created a permanent underclass that is totally dependent on government assistance. Mission accomplished, apparently.


It needs to provide incentive to move up the ladder.

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1. (Sociology) the situation of being unable to escape poverty because of being dependent on state benefits, which are reduced by the same amount as any extra income gained

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The system is fricked up. The Poverty Trap is a real phenomenon that social scientists and economics gurus agree upon.

When work is punished

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I think more blacks have been able to gain economic independence due to assistance they received through welfare than there are black that have become dependent upon welfare and resigned themselves to remaining on it.

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Then why is Section 8 housing always so crowded?

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Right, but the percentage of population makes it relevant.


I don't think it's relevant except to those that want to make it a racial issue.

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No, unless someone is stupid. It's a government problem, not a racial problem.

It's very relevant because the people it was designed to help, it's trapping. 6-1 is a pretty damn huge difference.

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Liberals are constantly complaining about income inequity which strangely became larger since the war on poverty began.


Mainly because the top 1% income growth has been growing at a faster rate. The lowest incomes have been growing at about the same rate as all other brackets other than the 1%. That has little to nothing to do with welfare.

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Welfare is helping "the 1%" you occupy types love to loathe. Walmart makes a killing off the government dime.

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It's created a permanent underclass that is totally dependent on government assistance.


There will always be a permanent underclass. A developed country such as ours should do all we can to take care of that underclass. If someone wants to sit around all day and live on welfare, I couldn't care less. Sounds like a shitty life to me, but more power to them.

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There will always be an underclass, but not generations of families stuck in the cycle. The system is broken and it was designed that way.

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It needs to provide incentive to move up the ladder.


This I agree with.

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Then you'll agree that the war on poverty is a failure.

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It's very relevant because the people it was designed to help, it's trapping.

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This I agree with. I once knew a single mom who had her first baby at seventeen, and she had another child a year later. Ten years later she was going to school and was hired at a full-time job that made less than what she did with government benefits. She didn't care that she was making less. She was proud of being self sufficient, and they cut her off of the benefits at the time she got this job.

Unfortunately her house was broken into and a lot of her things were stolen. She was also experiencing car trouble. Because she did not have a decent hedge fund to cover the costs, she wasn't able to make it to her job and she ended up back on govt benefits. She seemed to have a defeatist attitude when she told me, "it was too expensive to work." Had she been given a few months of overlap between benefits and work, she said she would have continued working. She didn't want to rely on the government, but the structure of the system fosters dependency.

In terms of whether or not to drug test welfare recipients, one has to look at the costs of implementing the plan. You also have to look at who is affected by terminating those benefits. Unfortunately it is the children of these recipients who would suffer the most unless they are taken away from these parents. If that is the policy then more money will need to be poured into foster care.

All that to say that I see the problems with welfare, but I don't see how many of the solutions would be both feasible and bring about the desired outcomes.

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It's a government problem, not a racial problem.

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Exactly, so why bring race into it?

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It's very relevant because the people it was designed to help, it's trapping.

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It was designed to help poor people, not just poor black people.

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Welfare is helping "the 1%" you occupy types love to loathe. Walmart makes a killing off the government dime.

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It wasn't by original design though. It's no coincidence the top 1% income growth exploded in the 80's after Reagan trotted out the 'Welfare Queen' mantra.

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Then you'll agree that the war on poverty is a failure.

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No, I don't think it's been a failure. I think it's been a mixed bag of success and failure. I do think the system has deficiencies that need fixing, but I don't think the entire system has been a failure.

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Opening trade is fine, but making it damn near not worth it to produce here isn't.

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If Obama ends a few subsidies for oil companies, that is exactly what will happen to the strongest sector of our economy.

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The system rewards single mothers who have multiple kids and penalizes them for trying to better themselves. So guess what we have a hell of a lot of?

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I wish more conservatives would bring this point up in the welfare discussion. It's illogical the way the government has set this up.