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re: Welfare. Discussion starts here, let's see where it takes us.
Posted on 3/19/14 at 11:54 am to Mizz-SEC
Posted on 3/19/14 at 11:54 am to Mizz-SEC
quote:
The hollowing out of the middle class has been a 30+ year project.
The systematic outsourcing of decent paying manufacturing jobs by Big Business purely for maximum profit has led to a permanently stunted underclass of the under-educated whose choices are 25-30 hours a week at McDonald's, Walmart and the like, or welfare.
Not everyone has the skills or wherewithall to go to college / start their own business / pick themselves up by their bootstraps. A percentage are indeed lazy scum that wouldn't work, no matter the pay. Then there's a percentage more who would like to work and not rely on the government, but those jobs are gone.
Since business prefers to keep their up front costs low via outsourcing and low wages, they shouldn't bitch about taking care of them on the backside as an outcropping of what's been sewn.
Amen to all of this.
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Posted on 3/19/14 at 11:58 am to DynastyDawg
Post corporate welfare stats
Posted on 3/19/14 at 11:59 am to Duke
quote:
Sometimes you gotta use the credit card.
horseshite. Sometimes you gotta do without, if you don't have the money.
quote:
Though if we don't really slow the card down now, we could be looking at a problem down the road.
That's an understatement. The use of the credit card in an emergency is one thing, the reckless abuse of the credit card is another. We WILL be looking at a problem down the road, there's no question about it. How painful the problem will be depends on how fast and how much we slow down the spending.
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:02 pm to Sleeping Tiger
I feel like this is about to go from an enjoyable discussion to a completely different conversation shortly.
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:02 pm to Vols&Shaft83
not everyone can be saved.
Freedom includes the freedom to frick up and get left behind because of it.
Freedom includes the freedom to frick up and get left behind because of it.
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:02 pm to Vols&Shaft83
I don't own a credit card because I don't believe in its premise, but don't most people use credit cards as a way to grow credit?
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:03 pm to DynastyDawg
quote:
I feel like this is about to go from an enjoyable discussion to a completely different conversation shortly.
Nah, I'm too busy right now to get into a discussion about this..
It is just a pet peeve of mine when social welfare is highlighted without equating the other side of the story, had to make some kind of remark.
This post was edited on 3/19/14 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:04 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
quote:
not everyone can be saved.
This.
fricking so much this.
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:07 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
quote:
not everyone can be saved.
Freedom includes the freedom to frick up and get left behind because of it.
I agree with this, but we also have to direct that logic towards the other end of the spectrum.
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:09 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
I don't own a credit card because I don't believe in its premise, but don't most people use credit cards as a way to grow credit?
I haven't used a credit card in 7 years, because I don't want to be in debt. I don't borrow money. I'm sure people use credit cards as a way to build credit, but I'll ask you this, If you have the money, why would you need credit?
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:13 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
I haven't used a credit card in 7 years, because I don't want to be in debt. I don't borrow money. I'm sure people use credit cards as a way to build credit, but I'll ask you this, If you have the money, why would you need credit?
Plenty of reasons. Sometimes debt is necessary or smart. Especially in business. I get your point, though.
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:14 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
It is a pet peeve of mine when social welfare is highlighted without equating the other side of the story.
That's because its really not equatable. Corporations that get tax breaks contribute billions to the US economy. People that use welfare as a means of income for years and years do not.
ETA: That's not to say that there isn't corruption in that realm to say the least, but it's not the same at all.
This post was edited on 3/19/14 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:14 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
quote:
Freedom includes the freedom to frick up and get left behind because of it.
And the congregation says Amen
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:17 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
but I'll ask you this, If you have the money, why would you need credit?
I used to always use cash for everything. I had one credit card in college for a few months, but paid it off and closed the account within a few months of getting it. I have one credit card now that I've had for 10 years and probably only used a dozen times. They're good to have in certain situations, travelling being the main one for me.
Now 10 years ago after the wife and I got married we went to purchase a home. We had a decent down payment with out combined savings. It was my first home purchase, and her second, and we had a difficult time getting approved because I had no credit. That one credit card had just dropped off the report, and I had paid cash for every car I had bought. I had one student loan on my credit report and that was it. Most people don't have the cash to buy a home, so if you ever want to buy a home having credit is very important. Even when I bought a new car last year a couple of places turned me down despite a high score because my mortgage and credit card that I hardly use were the only things on my report.
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:19 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
Sometimes you gotta do without, if you don't have the money.
By that logic I should do without college for engineering right now. Sure the prospects of 60k per year right of school look much better than the 18-20 I'd be making otherwise, but debt is inherently bad.
What matters is what you put on credit. Same principles for the government.
ETA:
quote:
If you have the money, why would you need credit?
Rewards. Put it on your card, pay it off every month to avoid interest, get free shite. It's a trap if you don't have discipline, but it is smart if you can avoid deviating from the plan.
This post was edited on 3/19/14 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:20 pm to DynastyDawg
quote:
Welfare. Discussion starts here, let's see where it takes us.
Where it has and is taking us is down the statist road of government dependency breeding a self perpetuating faction of individuals who lack self-reliance, self-determination and responsibility.
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:24 pm to Mizzeaux
quote:
Plenty of reasons. Sometimes debt is necessary or smart. Especially in business. I get your point, though.
I've owned my own business for awhile, and based on my personal experience, I can say that I would have been a lot better off early on if I hadn't used credit to try and build my company faster. But that's just me.
I know a lot of successful business owners that use leverage effectively, but they are exceptionally disciplined and none of them are leveraged beyond 25% of their assets.
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:27 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
I don't own a credit card because I don't believe in its premise, but don't most people use credit cards as a way to grow credit?
yes. I don't own one either. My credit is fine and I don't buy anything I can't pay cash for. Big purchases would require this line of thinking.
Say a new car cost $30,000. If I can't go buy 2 of these right now with cash I can't afford one. Hence, I would buy a cheaper car not the $30K model.
The rest of this country needs to be like me.
Alot of people don't agree with me but hey Im sitting pretty for a reason. I don't want to owe anyone 20 buck much less $20K.
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:29 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
If you have the money, why would you need credit?
Doesn't it effect rates on home and car loans? And those type of big things that most people can't pay for in cash.
Posted on 3/19/14 at 12:32 pm to Vols&Shaft83
I'm talking more in dealing with suppliers. Unless you're using a supplier with a cash on receipt type plan you'll need personal credit to get the account started.
I've got a vehicle for the business at 0%, I'll gladly trade a monthly payment at free interest for an extra $20000 in the bank. Again, can't get that without credit.
Like I said, I agree with your premise. I carry almost zero debt from month to month outside of the car, but I charge at least $5000/month on credit.
I've got a vehicle for the business at 0%, I'll gladly trade a monthly payment at free interest for an extra $20000 in the bank. Again, can't get that without credit.
Like I said, I agree with your premise. I carry almost zero debt from month to month outside of the car, but I charge at least $5000/month on credit.
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