re: Welfare. Discussion starts here, let's see where it takes us.

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I believe in social safety nets. I don't agree with welfare's current form. I don't agree with food stamps being a blank debit card you can use however you choose. I don't agree with welfare making people comfortable. I think the epidemic of overspending doesn't need to start with addressing welfare, but I think it should get there eventually. There are much bigger problems than the overspending relating to welfare. I essentially disagree with the arguments presented by both sides.

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Now here's somebody talking some sense.

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I didn't read the whole thing but this means he gets tax breaks for owning and operating a farm, and wants the government to help add more insurance for farmers?

So he works, gets tax breaks, instead of sitting on his arse and receives welfare checks...

Help me understand, because I'm sure I'm not getting the entirety of that story...

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More than just tax breaks. Many farm subsidies are direct payments from the government, for various reasons.

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In 2012 alone, the congressman was cut a government check for a $70,000 direct payment. Direct payments are issued automatically, regardless of need, and go predominantly to the largest, most profitable farm operations in the country.

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I believe the ballooning of those numbers has quite a bit to do with the recession and fallout from it. It's been stagnant at the bottom and food prices aren't getting lower.

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While it probably got worse after the recession, it was still what could be classified as a major problem prior to that happening.

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You can thank Ethanol subsidies for that. There's actually a decent argument that ethanol subsidies were a major player in the recession, but that's for another topic another day.

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A whooooooooole 'nother topic

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Still, it's a high number of people receiving benefits

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Exactly. Even if some of these numbers were cut in half it would still be a problem.

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I think Welfare is too hyper-politicized. It's just another issue to keep us fighting with each other. More sinister, it shines a light into the bad side of greed that drives our economy. Can't let people who need help have some of MY money! At the same time abuse of the system is a drain on the economy and gives the other side all the more reason to rail against it. It's really just a symptom of the larger problems within our economy.

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Here I agree with you, but sometimes, much to my own chagrin.

I agree that it overshadows other things, but at the same time I guess my pride takes over at other times. It's hard to swallow that last year I gave uncle sam almost 20k. Then I get in line at Wal-Mart and see some cracked out POS with two buggy loads of prime rib and all sorts of other shite, none of which is Great Value brand.

There's nothing to discuss.

The hollowing out of the middle class has been a 30+ year project.

The systematic outsourcing of decent paying manufacturing jobs by Big Business purely for maximum profit has led to a permanently stunted underclass of the under-educated whose choices are 25-30 hours a week at McDonald's, Walmart and the like, or welfare.

Not everyone has the skills or wherewithall to go to college / start their own business / pick themselves up by their bootstraps. A percentage are indeed lazy scum that wouldn't work, no matter the pay. Then there's a percentage more who would like to work and not rely on the government, but those jobs are gone.

Since business prefers to keep their up front costs low via outsourcing and low wages, they shouldn't bitch about taking care of them on the backside as an outcropping of what's been sewn.

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SNAP: 26 million in 2007 to 47 million in 2013. I'd say it got a tad worse.

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Obama. That's really not the direction I hope to point this in after saying that but the fact that he has pushed that agenda is hard to deny.

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It's not that I don't think we need to seriously rethink how our safety net operates, but there are bigger problems with more useful cuts to make that will also help in reducing the welfare costs.

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True, true. Really, honestly, I just want a balanced budget. Not a budget for over the amount of tax dollars we are projected to receive. I want a balanced budget. I want to see our national debt go down. I know it's unreasonable to ask for it to disappear in the near future or really ever for that matter but it would be nice to see less wasteful spending and a lower national debt instead of that bitch climbing 3 trillion per year.

A balanced budget isn't going to happen nor should it. Sometimes you gotta use the credit card.

Though if we don't really slow the card down now, we could be looking at a problem down the road.

I understand what you're saying. Sometimes you do have to use the credit card, but that's just it, it's a credit card. In the government's case, you're most likely never going to have to "pay the balance" but it is also not meant to be used as a way to "make ends meet."

Some cases are understandable, and from what you have explained I would say it would be fairly reasonable to assume she then didn't live off food stamps and other welfare for the rest of her life.

Your friend seems a pretty far distance from the POS I encounter at the check out line in the local grocery store.

frickin Fact.