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re: Texas, send us your poor oppressed white kids.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:52 am to inelishaitrust
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:52 am to inelishaitrust
quote:
The kids from Dallas are almost as bad.
The Dallas kids are the only reason Ole Miss can still keep up that "old money" reputation.
1
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:52 am to TideJoe
There is a surge of out of staters from more than just Texas in Tuscaloosa.
Rejects are only a portion of the the students choosing other schools, there are also those admitted that choose not to attend. 25% is a general gauge used by some schools, that figure looks a little higher at tamu but without the actual number being represented it is hard to tell.
Rejects are only a portion of the the students choosing other schools, there are also those admitted that choose not to attend. 25% is a general gauge used by some schools, that figure looks a little higher at tamu but without the actual number being represented it is hard to tell.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 8:24 am to GarlandTiger
quote:
In Garland tx, which has about 7 high schools, they ship all the gifted and talented students to to one high school. So as a high school student, you are competing against all the gifted students the city has to offer at that high school. To be in the top 10% is very difficult. There are a lot of kids that score 1300-1500 on SATs that cannot get into Texas and/or A&M because they are not top 10. My son and about 10 of his friends got full rides to LSU. I understand that about 100 kids from DFW area get scholarships to LSU each year.
I know for A&M, if you score 1300+ combined Math/Reading, and you're in the top 25%, you are automatically admitted. Granted, that might still not cover everyone at the one "gifted" high school you describe.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 8:40 am to tmc94
quote:
I can certainly see the merit in saying it should be blind to such things but the truth is, minorities are grossly underrepresented in our state schools. And since there is a direct correlation between quality of education and long-term success, it creates a somewhat permanent underclass.
In 1970, this was a big problem. I'm not sure how I feel about it today. Has it been long enough? Maybe. Maybe not. Numbers suggest it's still pretty skewed so I'm probably on the side saying using race is okay but I do think we need to eventually phase it out.
Using race as a factor perpetuates the notion that one has been held down by racism. And if you can blame problems on racism, you don't look for the true causal factors. Asians are almost never beneficiaries of these "race conscious" admission policies, yet historically they were subject to roughly the same amount of prejudice as Hispanic populations.
Besides, race-based admissions is just closing the barn door after most of the horses have run off. Real solutions are going to have to come much, much earlier.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:26 am to Mirthomatic
Race based admissions is a bad idea, always has been. It keeps kids that are otherwise better qualified from getting admitted while allowing kids that simply aren't qualified to take their spots. When they first did this it resulted in lots of minorities flunking out because they were competing against kids that were far more academically prepared than they were. Now schools have pushed minorities into "softer" majors and degrees so that they can graduate them even if the degree isn't very meaningful. Read "Preferential Policies" by Thomas Sowell, really enlightening book even if it is a bit dated the principles are still solid.
What you have in Texas now is more and more reactions to the policy. One part is all the kids going to SEC schools at in state rates or close to it. Why go to Texas State, North Texas, or Tech when you can go to LSU, Arkansas, or Ole Miss for similar money? Another thing is many of the top Texas HS's are slowly moving toward eliminating class ranking.
There are many Texas HS's where a kid in the Top 25% or even Top 50% would be Top 10% at most HS's. I know of one HS in Austin that had over 12% National Merit Finalists. The technology boom in the large Texas cities has also created a large and highly educated Asian population that is obsessed with academics that absorb a lot of that Top 10% at the elite schools.
It's a real issue and they still seem a long way from solving it. I have 2 very bright kids who I would love to be 3rd Generation Aggies but I know their path will be much harder than mine. May end up going elsewhere or they may end up going to Blinn for a year and transferring in as getting in the Top 10% at their HS is extremely difficult. Most of the Top 10% kids are going to college as academic Sophomores and all have high straight A averages in AP classes. I hope my kids can do that but I don't want them to feel like a failure if they can't.
What you have in Texas now is more and more reactions to the policy. One part is all the kids going to SEC schools at in state rates or close to it. Why go to Texas State, North Texas, or Tech when you can go to LSU, Arkansas, or Ole Miss for similar money? Another thing is many of the top Texas HS's are slowly moving toward eliminating class ranking.
There are many Texas HS's where a kid in the Top 25% or even Top 50% would be Top 10% at most HS's. I know of one HS in Austin that had over 12% National Merit Finalists. The technology boom in the large Texas cities has also created a large and highly educated Asian population that is obsessed with academics that absorb a lot of that Top 10% at the elite schools.
It's a real issue and they still seem a long way from solving it. I have 2 very bright kids who I would love to be 3rd Generation Aggies but I know their path will be much harder than mine. May end up going elsewhere or they may end up going to Blinn for a year and transferring in as getting in the Top 10% at their HS is extremely difficult. Most of the Top 10% kids are going to college as academic Sophomores and all have high straight A averages in AP classes. I hope my kids can do that but I don't want them to feel like a failure if they can't.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:37 am to aggressor
quote:
Why go to Texas State, North Texas, or Tech when you can go to LSU, Arkansas, or Ole Miss for similar money?
This is the biggest problem, IMO. It's honestly why they should put SMU and U of H in the Big 12. Kids go to college, in part because of the football experience.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:40 am to aggressor
quote:
There are many Texas HS's where a kid in the Top 25% or even Top 50% would be Top 10% at most HS's. I know of one HS in Austin that had over 12% National Merit Finalists. The technology boom in the large Texas cities has also created a large and highly educated Asian population that is obsessed with academics that absorb a lot of that Top 10% at the elite schools.
The problem you're describing here probably doesn't alleviate the situation of kids not getting in though. Rarely is tu or A&M going to take the middling white kid at a competitive public school over the asian with great grades and great test scores. It's the inner city kids with shitty test scores forcing out kids that's a problem.
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 9:41 am
Posted on 7/16/14 at 9:50 am to TeLeFaWx
quote:
The Dallas kids are the only reason Ole Miss can still keep up that "old money" reputation
Dallas is the textbook definition of "new money".
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:01 am to TbirdSpur2010
Last fall we had 4200 Texans enrolled in Fayetteville. Lots of jokes about the University of Texas at Fayetteville.
We had 1500 Missouri kids, too.
We had 1500 Missouri kids, too.
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 10:09 am
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:04 am to LSUbase13
I'll chime in on the real question here:
Dallas >> Houston
Dallas >> Houston
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:13 am to wmr
Nice to see that "diversity" is valued over academic achievement. I'm not hearing any complaints about the over representation of blacks in football. Maybe the 5'11"/200 lb. slow white kid should sue Saban for not offering him a scholarship at defensive tackle. If racial diversity and proper numerical representation are valued over performance, then why not?
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:17 am to TeLeFaWx
quote:
This is the biggest problem, IMO. It's honestly why they should put SMU and U of H in the Big 12. Kids go to college, in part because of the football experience.
You don't think they took a one for the cause already by adding TCU?
This is why Big 12 fans say our SEC move was "good for Aggies but bad for the state."
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 10:19 am
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:20 am to Tantal
I'm looking at this page and Arkansas has kids from all 50 states. We had 172 Californians last year. We have a lot of Illinois kids, too. Surprisingly cosmopolitan, to me anyway.
Fall 2013, our top out-of-state states were, in order:
Texas 4107
Missouri 1502
Oklahoma 1000
Kansas 593
Tennessee 457
Florida 199
California 172
Louisiana 141
Illinois 126
Fall 2013, our top out-of-state states were, in order:
Texas 4107
Missouri 1502
Oklahoma 1000
Kansas 593
Tennessee 457
Florida 199
California 172
Louisiana 141
Illinois 126
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 10:24 am
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:23 am to aggressor
quote:
Race based admissions is a bad idea, always has been. It keeps kids that are otherwise better qualified from getting admitted while allowing kids that simply aren't qualified to take their spots.
Using race as an admissions criterion is a bad idea only if public schools around the state were able to deliver a similar product. This is simply not the case.
One could argue that university admissions is not the time to remedy this but it is what UT-Austin has chosen to do.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:26 am to TeLeFaWx
My point is that it is crazy competitive to get in that Top 10% more than anything, even taking race out of it. If you have kids at a HS where 90% of their parents are college educated and 50% have Grad Degrees that emphasize academics heavily competing with a HS where 20% or less have parents with a college degree and very little emphasis on academics it is a huge gap in terms of competition.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:29 am to aggressor
quote:
If you have kids at a HS where 90% of their parents are college educated and 50% have Grad Degrees that emphasize academics heavily competing with a HS where 20% or less have parents with a college degree and very little emphasis on academics it is a huge gap in terms of competition.
Yeah it sucks because the kids you're sending out of state aren't bad students, at least the ones who can get the tuition break at Arkansas.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:50 am to FarmersFight
There are lots of issues with race based admissions. One of them is they favor middle and upper middle class minorities while penalizing lower class whites. That is separate from Top 10% but does apply to the other admissions criteria and scholarships. If you are going strictly on race then you don't discriminate on means which allows for a kid from a wealthy suburban family that just happens to be AA or Hispanic to get preferential treatment while a white kid from a very poor family (often rural) gets penalized for their race in many ways.
I had a friend of mine in HS that wasn't able to get in to A&M (barely) and decided to apply to Stanford but checked off that they were Native American. He got accepted, though he didn't follow through because he wasn't actually Native American. My Great Grandmother was full blooded Cherokee. Had I put Native American on my applications there is no telling how much financial assistance or types of schools I could have attended since I was an auto admit to A&M. It's just flawed concept. I know people who were South African and blond haired and blue eyed that qualified as AA as well.
Means testing has some degree of merit but race is just not a good determining factor. This is further emphasized because over the last 50 years races have become more and more mixed. It's just a very poor measure. Being a member of a race doesn't make you smarter or dumber or more or less qualified for anything in and of itself.
I had a friend of mine in HS that wasn't able to get in to A&M (barely) and decided to apply to Stanford but checked off that they were Native American. He got accepted, though he didn't follow through because he wasn't actually Native American. My Great Grandmother was full blooded Cherokee. Had I put Native American on my applications there is no telling how much financial assistance or types of schools I could have attended since I was an auto admit to A&M. It's just flawed concept. I know people who were South African and blond haired and blue eyed that qualified as AA as well.
Means testing has some degree of merit but race is just not a good determining factor. This is further emphasized because over the last 50 years races have become more and more mixed. It's just a very poor measure. Being a member of a race doesn't make you smarter or dumber or more or less qualified for anything in and of itself.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 10:50 am to FarmersFight
quote:
Using race as an admissions criterion is a bad idea only if public schools around the state were able to deliver a similar product. This is simply not the case.
If poor black and hispanic kids from an underperforming school get preferred treatment in admissions over the poor asian and white kids from the same school, then you aren't attempting to rectify the consequences of a substandard public school primary education. And if RICH black and hispanic kids from EXEMPLARY schools are getting preferred treatment over those poor asian and white kids... what's the argument then?
The 10% rule catches a lot of flack, but it at least attempts to address the problem in a way that truly targets DISADVANTAGED kids.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 11:54 am to aggressor
quote:
My point is that it is crazy competitive to get in that Top 10% more than anything, even taking race out of it. If you have kids at a HS where 90% of their parents are college educated and 50% have Grad Degrees that emphasize academics heavily competing with a HS where 20% or less have parents with a college degree and very little emphasis on academics it is a huge gap in terms of competition.
Agreed, I went to one of those high school. Plano West sent 95% of the graduating class to college, and we had countless kids go to MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Brown, Duke, etc. I'm still saying the demographic breakdown, if the top 10% wasn't in effect, would still be overwhelmingly asian/indian. The more than 50% non-white at tu would still be pretty close if the top 10% rule went away. As much as these parents don't want to admit it, as they think little Johnny should be better than having to attend lowly Arkansas, the truth of the matter is, he's probably not. Arkansas and the like want to act like they are getting qualified kids that should be going to tu or A&M, and that's not really the case. They are getting the kids that should go to Texas State, but they want to watch football on Saturdays.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 11:59 am to TeLeFaWx
My HS in west Houston was the exact same.
The only students who didn't attend college were the few who went into the military; and most of the first quarter went Ivy League.
A good chunk of the bottom part of the third and the majority of the 4th quarters attended Ole Miss, Arkansas, Alabama, and LSU.
That's not meant to be an insult at all.
They simply couldn't snag a spot at top schools in-state.
As others have said before me, were I one of those kids, I'd have headed to Baton Rouge before going west to El Paso or Lubbock.
The only students who didn't attend college were the few who went into the military; and most of the first quarter went Ivy League.
A good chunk of the bottom part of the third and the majority of the 4th quarters attended Ole Miss, Arkansas, Alabama, and LSU.
That's not meant to be an insult at all.
They simply couldn't snag a spot at top schools in-state.
As others have said before me, were I one of those kids, I'd have headed to Baton Rouge before going west to El Paso or Lubbock.
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 12:00 pm
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