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re: Auburn Police Shoot Mentally Ill Woman
Posted on 4/12/16 at 2:04 pm to Guava Jelly
Posted on 4/12/16 at 2:04 pm to Guava Jelly
quote:
I don't know a lot about being a cop.
You sure seem to act like you do.
quote:
But from what I know about the law I know there is legal precedent for use of deadly force on someone with a knife who is "charging" an officer.
You're right. Officers have a right to protect their life and are justified to use deadly force.
quote:
Just as these officers have the right to protect themselves, people with mental issues have a right to not live in fear of being killed during an episode.
Again, I reiterate: the article says was bipolar, and in the depression stage. It's not like she was having delusions of purple people. The woman was depressed and expressed a desire to kill herself. I'd say she accomplished that goal when she rushed at cops with a knife.
1
Posted on 4/12/16 at 2:10 pm to AUnite
quote:
the article says was bipolar, and in the depression stage. It's not like she was having delusions of purple people.
Since you think the comment should have been repeated, let's explore this logic. Are you severely bipolar? If not, are you a mental health expert with experience dealing with these types of patients?
If not, you're no more qualified to make suppositions about the mental capacity of the woman than I am of the actions of the officers.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 2:11 pm to AUnite
quote:
Wow.
Would you stand there and let someone rush at you with a knife?
Christ. This conversation is pointless. Of course I know a knife can be deadly, but it's a far different situation than someone with a gun. You fricks are so quick to call someone out you totally miss the point. If the officer had time to draw his firearm, he had time to employ some other means of incapacitation.
This post was edited on 4/12/16 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 4/12/16 at 2:23 pm to JustGetItRight
quote:
The general rule is that if someone armed with a knife is within 21' then they're too close. At that distance, you don't even have time to draw and fire if your pistol is holstered.
With all due respect, if we have officers that need 21' to draw their weapon, we're in bad shape.
quote:
Didn't think so. It varies by model and cartridge but the maximum available is 35'. The ones most commonly used have ranges of 15' and 21'.
Well, I'd say that's a fair distance. Regardless, I'm not going to sit and argue feet and inches. It's evident they had enough distance/time to use their firearm. I understand, some are fans of kill first, I'm not.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 2:30 pm to AUbagman
its only 7 yards, probably like 1.5 seconds or so
Posted on 4/12/16 at 2:31 pm to JustGetItRight
quote:
What posters like AUBagman are really saying is that they wish she hadn't gotten killed. I bet the officer wishes the same thing. Very few people get up in the morning hoping to go to work and kill someone. I suspect there's not a single soul that doesn't wish she hadn't gotten killed but that wish doesn't mean that the actions of the officer were unjustified.
And as I had mentioned in my first post, the officer was justified as he was probably acting out what he was trained to do and that I did not blame him. It's as if you guys honed in on one ill communicated sentence and disregarded the rest. This whole argument was based on my notion that I believe LE should have more training and comfort with non deadly methods of subduing a suspect.
Hopefully, in the near future, we'll have automated robots or something that can be controlled from within a bulletproof cop car and safely detain a suspect. Anything is better than mentally incapacitated/innocent LE dying.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 2:38 pm to Sneaky__Sally
I'm aware of how far 21 feet is. And no, unless it's Usain Bolt holding a knife, they've got over 2 seconds on average. It takes the fastest man in the world 1.89 seconds to go 10 yards, and that was during a world record run.
This post was edited on 4/12/16 at 2:40 pm
Posted on 4/12/16 at 2:41 pm to AUbagman
quote:
Taser guns work damned well to incapacitate someone. That's my point. Could you not reach for the taser before the firearm?
OK, I talked to a copy buddy of mine and he only told me this.
If someone has a deadly weapon the correct choice is the gun. If the person charges with the knife and the taser isn't effective then you may not have time to draw your gun. They are trained to meet the threat with the proper tool. They aren't their to MMA it up with a knife wielding crazy person.
Complain about their training methods to your mayor if you want change. Make a case that they are training incorrectly and teach them how you want it done.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 2:46 pm to roadGator
That's a dumb argument. Guns fail to fire also.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 2:55 pm to AUbagman
quote:
That's a dumb argument. Guns fail to fire also.
Take it up with the police departments and tell them it's dumb. Apparently you should be training them. You seem to have a great plan.
This post was edited on 4/12/16 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 4/12/16 at 2:58 pm to AUbagman
i was just translating to yards cause most people visualize that better, no need to get defensive.
I think most NFL lineman 10 yard splits are in the sub 2.0 range at the combine which is how I extrapolated since they are pretty big people.
Regardless, call it 2.25 seconds, still not a lot of reaction time.
I think most NFL lineman 10 yard splits are in the sub 2.0 range at the combine which is how I extrapolated since they are pretty big people.
Regardless, call it 2.25 seconds, still not a lot of reaction time.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 3:04 pm to roadGator
I understand, heavy clothing is an obstacle for tasers, and there are instances where a gun is the only means available. Rubber bullets are an option also, maybe we could implement a tripping device (no idea if it exists, just a thought for charging perps), just something other than killing people that are clearly not in a clear state of mind.
This post was edited on 4/12/16 at 3:06 pm
Posted on 4/12/16 at 3:05 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
I think most NFL lineman 10 yard splits are in the sub 2.0 range at the combine which is how I extrapolated since they are pretty big people.
Just for fact checking, there are few if any NFL players that run sub 2.0 on their 10 yard split.
A poor OL time is 1.8s
This post was edited on 4/12/16 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 4/12/16 at 3:06 pm to AUbagman
quote:
Rubber bullets are an option also
Never understood why rubber bullets are not more frequently used.
Based on what little I've read, I don't have an issue with the police's response. This is a PD management issue though on finding more effective responses
Posted on 4/12/16 at 3:07 pm to GenesChin
quote:
almost no NFL players than run sub 2.0 on their 10 yard split. For OL, 1.8+ is bottom tier
i think you may have had a typo or something, you contradict yourself...
Posted on 4/12/16 at 3:08 pm to GenesChin
I'm going off this chart:
Posted on 4/12/16 at 3:10 pm to AUbagman
quote:
With all due respect, if we have officers that need 21' to draw their weapon, we're in bad shape.
I'm no expert on this, but 21 feet isn't so long as to feel super comfortable with having to
1) React to charge
2) draw weapon
3) aim at moving target
**Bonus- Deal with/adjust for adrenaline rush
Posted on 4/12/16 at 3:11 pm to AUbagman
I hope you never face a knife wielding person holding only a taser and a tripping device. 
Posted on 4/12/16 at 3:14 pm to GenesChin
My point is, if you can draw a gun, you can draw another means of incapacitation. It's that simple. I don't know why this has become such a long and drawn out argument.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 3:15 pm to roadGator
What's funny is, the most effective weapon against a fricking 600 lb charging grizzley is pepper spray.
This post was edited on 4/12/16 at 3:19 pm
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