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re: Auburn Police Shoot Mentally Ill Woman
Posted on 4/12/16 at 7:45 am to bayou2003
Posted on 4/12/16 at 7:45 am to bayou2003
quote:
There's been cases involving normal civilians shooting people charging at them with a knife and they've been charged with manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.
And were they convicted? The laws vary from state to state but in most states someone coming at you with a knife is absolutely covered under the use of deadly force.
So many of you guys are talking out of your asses right now. It's easy for you to be tough behind a keyboard... but if someone was coming at you with a knife you'd either piss yourself and get stabbed or pull the trigger and live.
1
Posted on 4/12/16 at 7:46 am to AggieDub14
This exact situation happened a couple of years ago to a woman I went to high school with. She showed up on FB acting a bit off. I had some conversations with her there. It was clear she wasn't doing well, mentally. I went as far as talking to a mutual friend, who I knew was closer to her (I hadn't spoken to this woman for years, until she showed up on facebook). Anyway, long story short, a day or two later, she was shot by a police officer in a nearly identical situation. It's hard to blame the officers, but at the same time, I know she wasn't a bad person - just in a terrible place. I felt like I should have done more, but we were never close, and I thought her friends and family would be more able to help.
This post was edited on 4/12/16 at 7:50 am
Posted on 4/12/16 at 7:47 am to roadGator
quote:
I'd like to read the details of these cases. Links?
You won't because he's full of shite. The only way a charge like that sticks is if that scenario occurred during a drug deal gone bad or something.
An average citizen OR law officer, when threatened by someone wielding a knife or other deadly weapon, has every justification to use deadly force.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 7:48 am to jackmanusc
quote:
jackmanusc
Posted on 4/12/16 at 7:50 am to Teague
If they knew that she was mentally ill before they encountered her, they could have easily used a taser instead of lethal force.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 7:50 am to AggieDub14
To me the main question is communication. Did the responding officers know the story? If not why not?
If they knew it was just a knife, that's one thing. If all they knew is that she was "armed" that's another. If they didn't know what she had and it was dark and she came toward them and lifted an object then for all they knew it could have been a gun.
However if they knew the whole story and knew she only had a knife I would tend to think pepper spray and a taser would neutralize her. But hey, I wasn't there so it's hard to judge.
Either way it's just a horrible situation.
If they knew it was just a knife, that's one thing. If all they knew is that she was "armed" that's another. If they didn't know what she had and it was dark and she came toward them and lifted an object then for all they knew it could have been a gun.
However if they knew the whole story and knew she only had a knife I would tend to think pepper spray and a taser would neutralize her. But hey, I wasn't there so it's hard to judge.
Either way it's just a horrible situation.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 7:55 am to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
If they knew that she was mentally ill before they encountered her, they could have easily used a taser instead of lethal force.
Without knowing exactly how it played out when they made contact with her how can you make such a definitive statement?
Once again it's easy for all of you to make such claims when it's not your safety/life on the line.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 7:55 am to Fear The Thumb
Posted on 4/12/16 at 7:58 am to G8RnGA
quote:
However if they knew the whole story and knew she only had a knife I would tend to think pepper spray and a taser would neutralize her.
If I know you have a knife and you come at me with it... and I have 3 choices: pepper spray, taser, or gun. I'm going with gun. 2 of those choices leave you with a "maybe" factor and 1 leaves little doubt as to whether or not you go home at the end of the night.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 7:59 am to terd ferguson
quote:
Without knowing exactly how it played out when they made contact with her how can you make such a definitive statement?
I don't think I made a definitive statement. Hence the "If".
Posted on 4/12/16 at 8:06 am to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
I don't think I made a definitive statement. Hence the "If".
You said "if" they knew she was mentally ill. So what if they knew... I was talking about your statement that they should have used tasers.
Half the people in here are saying "If this..." or "we don't know..." and then following it up with how the cops were wrong to use deadly force.
If you don't know how it went down then you don't know what level of force was required at that exact moment in time. How about instead of blaming the cops we blame the parents that let her have access to a weapon and a vehicle. If the parents decided to lawyer up then the cops should sue the parents for putting them in this situation.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 8:15 am to DocYates
quote:
Both of them will and can kill you just as easy.
This just isn't true.
quote:
Mental illness is no excuse.
When the police know about it ahead of time, it absolutely is a reason for those officers to exhaust all non-lethal means necessary to get the situation under control.
Every cop is equipped with a taser and pepper spray. And what's more is many (if not most) departments in mid-sized cities or bigger have access to riot control gear (like beanbag rounds for shotguns). Any of these could have been used to incapacitate this woman before lethal force was used. They weren't and now she's dead.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 8:17 am to AggieDub14
So if the woman hadn't been mentally disturbed, shooting her would have been OK?
Posted on 4/12/16 at 8:18 am to terd ferguson
Seems like some folks in this thread think all cops have the hand to hand skills of Jason Bourne. Just give them a magazine and watch them disarm a knife wielding crazy person.
It's just a movie folks.
It's just a movie folks.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 8:18 am to Guava Jelly
I don't think every cop has a tazer
Posted on 4/12/16 at 8:22 am to terd ferguson
quote:
If you don't know how it went down then you don't know what level of force was required at that exact moment in time.
None of us, including you, know. It just seems extreme yet it may have been justified that's all I was trying to get across. No one has been slamming the cops horribly but I don't see how a person can't say this one is an odd outcome given what was in the article.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 8:24 am to piggilicious
quote:
None of us, including you, know.
Which is why I'm not in here saying they didn't need to shoot her.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 8:36 am to Aubie Spr96
There are other ways to defend yourself and that quick decision making that could save someone's life is taught through training.
Had she not been mentally ill, the officer still should try and restrain her without firing a gun. Do I think they are more justified in shooting a threatening suspect that is not mentally ill vs one who is? Great question.
Had she not been mentally ill, the officer still should try and restrain her without firing a gun. Do I think they are more justified in shooting a threatening suspect that is not mentally ill vs one who is? Great question.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 8:42 am to terd ferguson
quote:
If I know you have a knife and you come at me with it... and I have 3 choices: pepper spray, taser, or gun. I'm going with gun. 2 of those choices leave you with a "maybe" factor and 1 leaves little doubt as to whether or not you go home at the end of the night.
Therein lies the problem... I'm not saying they weren't justified, simply because we don't have all the info, but there seems to be a general trend toward skipping the "de-escalation" process, which they also receive training on. And a 36 year old woman getting hit with a taser is not really a "maybe"... She'd need to weigh about 300+ pounds before there would be any real concern that the taser wouldn't stop her, unless the problem is aim... and in which case, why the frick do they have a gun and badge?
Posted on 4/12/16 at 8:43 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
I don't think every cop has a tazer
If it's not all, it's most. I'd venture that all of Auburn's police officers have access to tasers if they know they'll need them... sort of like in a situation when you want to incapacitate a woman who is mentally ill.
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