re: Shouldn't be surprised, but the level of suck

I like how your handle here is a combination of Tigerboard and RockM handles

I'm not sure it's as simple as bad people were brought into the program. I don't really know for sure, but I don't think most of those guys were inherently 'bad'.

Instead, I think it was more that the environment enabled certain behavior.

The culture narrative is going to be hard to pin down neatly in words.

Think about Uncle Buck coming in and cooking a good breakfast for the kids, and putting his foot down about his niece making out in public, and so on. There was years of parental negligence that led to the situation Buck walked into.

KA has kind of been a much thinner Uncle Buck in this story.

Cleaning up culture could have been done while also winning more. Sure. There isn't a great defense for how things have gone the last couple years. But this kind of stuff should be put in the stew. Sprinkled in with the probation. And what you taste and think will be different than if you didn't include those relevant things in your recipe.

Short laugh-sigh.

There were players here. There was a significant coach still here. Which plays into the lack of submission with a mixed bag locker room. To approach everything singularly like that, yeah, it can be easy to come up with a response like the one you just gave. And the culture isn't entirely dependent on there even being players from the previous regime. Over the 100 years of the cubs losing there were a lot of different players, coaches, owners, gms, fans -- it's not a 1-1 comparison by any means, but there was something rooted in the culture that made it even harder for them to win.

This has more than played itself out.

Not worth continuing.

I got what I needed out of the social experiment.

Do what ya guys gotta do to vent about this stuff.

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There's a narrative that Haith had recruited bad people and that the trash needed to be cleaned out. There's truth to it. But I'm not sure Namon Wright, Jakeenan Gant, MGC and DA were trashy people. JW3 certainly wasn't. Torren Jones probably was. Isabel probably was.

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This sounds like just about any basketball team in history. A majority of good apples and a couple/few bad ones. So not the huge black hole some make it out to be and no reason to go 9, 10 and 11 wins in following years. I will wait for the rest of the narrative.

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The other narrative was that Haith rolled the ball out there and that he didn't get effort from his players. There's some validity to that as well. But when comparing Anderson to Haith on this charge, Haith looks like Bobby Knight.

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So no effort got 30, 23 and 23 wins. Hardly that deep dark black hole that others refer too. Hell, I'd say that's just the opposite because a coach that could get effort would get 20+ wins a season, not 9, 10 and 11.

In Gabes chat tonight he was asked about the basketball program.
He essentially said that on the court the program is obviously worse. He also said that off the court and administratively Mizzou is a better job than it was when KA was hired. It should be a more attractive position than in 2014.

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That's colorful but what were players doing equivalent to making out in public? Acting entitled? You don't think that happens everywhere? Smoking weed?

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Player behavior isn't where the culture issue started or ended.

so can Barnett play against eIll?

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Player behavior isn't where the culture issue started or ended.

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Jesus Christ you don't like to answer questions but will certainly put people on blast for their answers or not answering. I was willing to listen to your self-purported higher level of understanding but you still have said nothing.

Said nothing. Good one.

Willing to listen? It's all been said in this and other threads.

I've expended a good deal of energy and answered plenty of questions.

It played itself out.

Definitely not asking or expecting all to agree with me, but to say I haven't said anything and to display no understanding of my positions is a good sign that the conversation shouldn't continue.

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said that off the court and administratively Mizzou is a better job than it was when KA was hired. It should be a more attractive position than in 2014.

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Of course it is. Mike Alden is not your boss anymore if you come to coach basketball at Mizzou. That makes it a better job. I don't see how it's gotten better other than that fact.