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re: Alright, I'm done. Anderson needs to go.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:26 pm to Hawgeye
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:26 pm to Hawgeye
I just want to know if any of you apologists believe MA has ever done anything wrong. Failing to acknowledge even 1 weakness in his system screams a lack of objectivity.
TALENT is not going to make up for deficiencies in the SYSTEM, IMO. Not if you want to win a national championship. If all you want to do is get to the tournament with relative consistency, Stan Heath probably should have never been fired, right? I mean...he got us to the tourney in back-to-back years. That's all that matters...GETTING THERE! And I'm quite positive that most of us probably hated Stan Heath in large part due to his system.
Does MA's system make sense under the current rule set of college basketball? I don't think so. When he was coming up, things were different. Guards and forwards couldn't bring the ball up the court against the press nearly as consistently as they can now. I think the full court press is a great tool at home, when we get the benefit of home cooking. And, under MA, it's absolutely critical that we have success with the press because we've been able to generate substantial scoring from it. But it's obvious that we can't generate the same level of success on the road. Instead, we pick up pointless fouls and put the home team in the bonus and fail to force enough turnovers.
Does MA's recruiting make up for the lack in offensive philosophy or execution? Because no lack of point guard can explain why we can't run simple half-court sets. Do any of you WATCH basketball outside of Arkansas games? For decades coaches have been using freaking forwards to initiate their offense in certain sets (point forward), not to mention the off guard.
You're telling me that we don't have anyone capable of initiating a play? I think we have plenty of guys with the capacity to bring the ball up the court and pass it off to the wing or high post as they initiate whatever set is being run. Effective point guard play is not exclusively about penetrating and dishing. Or scoring. Or assists. Give me a guy that can run the offense. I don't care who gets the assists. I don't care who takes the shots. I just want a guy to run the offense.
The problem, as I see it, is that the offense is too under-developed and lazy. Lazy screens. Guys not rotating the ball to open shooters and, instead, taking a few useless dribbles in place while never doing anything close to attempting to drive the ball (Qualls especially here recently), thereby allowing the defense to recover. We have gotten much better at attacking zone defenses in the half-court set, which has long been a frustration for me, by getting the ball to the high post more often. But we still don't do it nearly as often as we should. It's the weakest part of the zone and we should get the ball there every time down the court.
Those aren't talent issues. Those are coaching issues. Those are philosophy issues. If MA would alter his philosophy to align with the current realities of college basketball, I'd have no problem seeing what he could do. Bring in fresh coaches who have expertise in half-court execution. Another who is a excellent recruiter. Good enough. I'm fine with letting him roll with that as long as he heeds the half-court influence of the new coach and employs the full-court much less on the road than at home or even at neutral site games.
TALENT is not going to make up for deficiencies in the SYSTEM, IMO. Not if you want to win a national championship. If all you want to do is get to the tournament with relative consistency, Stan Heath probably should have never been fired, right? I mean...he got us to the tourney in back-to-back years. That's all that matters...GETTING THERE! And I'm quite positive that most of us probably hated Stan Heath in large part due to his system.
Does MA's system make sense under the current rule set of college basketball? I don't think so. When he was coming up, things were different. Guards and forwards couldn't bring the ball up the court against the press nearly as consistently as they can now. I think the full court press is a great tool at home, when we get the benefit of home cooking. And, under MA, it's absolutely critical that we have success with the press because we've been able to generate substantial scoring from it. But it's obvious that we can't generate the same level of success on the road. Instead, we pick up pointless fouls and put the home team in the bonus and fail to force enough turnovers.
Does MA's recruiting make up for the lack in offensive philosophy or execution? Because no lack of point guard can explain why we can't run simple half-court sets. Do any of you WATCH basketball outside of Arkansas games? For decades coaches have been using freaking forwards to initiate their offense in certain sets (point forward), not to mention the off guard.
You're telling me that we don't have anyone capable of initiating a play? I think we have plenty of guys with the capacity to bring the ball up the court and pass it off to the wing or high post as they initiate whatever set is being run. Effective point guard play is not exclusively about penetrating and dishing. Or scoring. Or assists. Give me a guy that can run the offense. I don't care who gets the assists. I don't care who takes the shots. I just want a guy to run the offense.
The problem, as I see it, is that the offense is too under-developed and lazy. Lazy screens. Guys not rotating the ball to open shooters and, instead, taking a few useless dribbles in place while never doing anything close to attempting to drive the ball (Qualls especially here recently), thereby allowing the defense to recover. We have gotten much better at attacking zone defenses in the half-court set, which has long been a frustration for me, by getting the ball to the high post more often. But we still don't do it nearly as often as we should. It's the weakest part of the zone and we should get the ball there every time down the court.
Those aren't talent issues. Those are coaching issues. Those are philosophy issues. If MA would alter his philosophy to align with the current realities of college basketball, I'd have no problem seeing what he could do. Bring in fresh coaches who have expertise in half-court execution. Another who is a excellent recruiter. Good enough. I'm fine with letting him roll with that as long as he heeds the half-court influence of the new coach and employs the full-court much less on the road than at home or even at neutral site games.
3
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:26 pm to ElDawgHawg
quote:
Our program is SLIGHTLY better since Pel. Not much.
Ok you're dumb. Pel had zero control of this program when he was here. No one was going to class and kids weren't graduating. Our APR got SO LOW WE LOST SCHOLARSHIPS. Rape algeations of players and commons arrests were frequent with Pel players.
This post was edited on 1/29/14 at 12:33 pm
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:30 pm to ocelot4ark
quote:
I just want to know if any of you apologists believe MA has ever done anything wrong. Failing to acknowledge even 1 weakness in his system screams a lack of objectivity.
oh, i was thinking (hoping) you were drunk last night during your overly pissed comments. guess not.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:32 pm to Hogwall Jackson
Yeah, it's pretty dishonest to say we're only slightly better than Pel's program.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:32 pm to piggilicious
quote:
oh, i was thinking (hoping) you were drunk last night during your overly pissed comments. guess not.
So no, then?
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:33 pm to ocelot4ark
quote:
Does MA's system make sense under the current rule set of college basketball? I don't think so
You lack foresight. This is the first year of the new hand check rules, they will relax over time.
Just like when they instituted the taunting rule in football that would negate a touchdown. It happened once or twice that first year and now you never see it happen at all.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:35 pm to Stonehog
quote:
You lack foresight. This is the first year of the new hand check rules, they will relax over time.
Got any lotto predictions to go with that?
NBA enhanced hand check rules have had the desired effect of increased scoring. And that shite's been in place for at least 15 years. To place the future of your program in the hands of an assumption that a RULE won't be enforced is fricking stupid. "Oh crap. I guess they are going to enforce the rule. NOWWWW Anderson's strategy doesn't make sense." GTFO.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:36 pm to ocelot4ark
quote:
So no, then?
No, what? There's about 500 words in your post and you start out kinda attacking people who like Mike so I didn't bother to read all of it.
Mike's not perfect, I don't always agree with the lineups he has on the floor or the fact that we can't seem to close out a team and maybe even some stuff you put in your post that I didn't read but I still think it would be idiotic to fire him at this point.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:38 pm to ocelot4ark
You realize you're complaining about the offense while we're first in the league in scoring and 15th in the country. 
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:39 pm to Drewbie
quote:
It's almost like it's a routine. Mizzou had 19-20 offensive rebounds.
16, 7-8 caused by our own players fighting each other for the ball.
quote:
Because we suck at rebounding and all Moses does is rebound.
1 rebound in 9 minutes while continuously losing his man around the rim on defense.
quote:
Just absolutely has no idea how to run a half court offense.
He runs a motion offense, an offense that is impossible to scout against.
He mixes in some sets, mainly against zone defenses because when you run motion against man to man you should not need to run sets, the offense will create its own shots when ran properly.
quote:
We've gone from recruiting coast to coast, cherry picking the puzzle pieces, replacing with higher and higher caliber player. to recruiting on a regional map and taking reaches and transfers coming home from lesser programs.
Arkansas hasn't done that with high end players since the mid 90s.
quote:
There aren't really any excuses for not whiffing the tourney at Arkansas. We had a 25 year stretch where we only missed it three times.
You sound like an Ole Miss fan talking about football in the late 50s-early 60s.
Arkansas has made the NCAAs twice in the past 12 years.
quote:
They've got a new coach just like us and are already better. Why don't we have a PG in year 3? That should've been addressed by year 2 a the latest. What if Beard doesn't pan out, then what wait two more years. frick that
Johnson is a much better recruiter and coach than Pelphey.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:42 pm to ElDawgHawg
quote:
At what point is someone going to address player development. Look at the upperclassmen.
Madden was a 4 or 5 star.
Scott was a 4 star.
I want to say Wade was a 4 star.
Can we honestly say they have gotten better? You could argue that Madden has this year but I wouldn't say it's the yearly progress you would have expected. Mwade and Scott have regressed if anything. I hope I'm not the only person that can see this. And looking at this year's class it is hard to believe we have a lot of help coming from two 3* and a 2*.
Face it people, our program is pretty friggin bad.
Mike shouldn't have to shoulder all the blame, but I certainly don't think we've made a major improvement either..... and that is on him.
Madden was rated as a PG, a position he does not play well, but is serviceable. He couldn't not play the position the past two years before improving his handles like he has this year.
quote:
Madden was a 4 or 5 star.
Madden was a 3* on most services, rated as a 3 point threat, a shot he has refused to take the past two seasons.
quote:
Scott was a 4 star.
Rated as a defender and slasher who could develop into a scorer, he can't make a lay up or free throw, that is all on him, a guy his size should hit 90% from the line not 50%.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:42 pm to CtotheVrzrbck
quote:
Manuele Watkins was their answer at PG. We stole him from Missouri St. We have 3 PGs from Fayetteville High and none of them are high level D1 talent.
No he wasn't, he is a walk on.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:43 pm to Hawgeye
quote:
Nick Babb: 3* chose Arkansas over Texas Tech, Creighton, and Wichita State.
Also SMU, but SMU doesn't have a coach who knows anything about talent.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:46 pm to piggilicious
quote:
No, what? There's about 500 words in your post and you start out kinda attacking people who like Mike so I didn't bother to read all of it.
Maybe start with the section you quoted? ROCKET SCIENCE!
quote:
I just want to know if any of you apologists believe MA has ever done anything wrong. Failing to acknowledge even 1 weakness in his system screams a lack of objectivity.
So no, then?
quote:
Mike's not perfect, I don't always agree with the lineups he has on the floor or the fact that we can't seem to close out a team and maybe even some stuff you put in your post that I didn't read but I still think it would be idiotic to fire him at this point.
That's fine. I don't think you're an idiot for disagreeing with me. I think I just have a different expectation for the program than many (getting to the tournament vs succeeding in the tournament).
quote:
maybe even some stuff you put in your post that I didn't read
In the future, how about not jumping on someone until you actually read their post.
quote:
oh, i was thinking (hoping) you were drunk last night during your overly pissed comments. guess not.
Please feel free to point out which comments were "overly pissed," though. I'd like to know how they stand out in your opinion.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:48 pm to ocelot4ark
quote:
I think the full court press is a great tool at home, when we get the benefit of home cooking
Mike uses several different presses, most of which are used not to create turnovers but to speed up the tempo of the game and not allow teams who want to walk the ball up the court to do so.
Georgetown uses a press for the exact opposite reason, they want to slow you down in the back court, then three quarters court in an attempt to slow the tempo of the game down and reduce the amount of time left on the shot clock.
quote:
Because no lack of point guard can explain why we can't run simple half-court sets
Because Mike runs an offensive not plays. That is like saying the only way to win in football is running the wishbone and not a prostyle or spread offense.
Before you try to counter with "Sets are better", look up what coaches run the motion offense verses sets than compare the amount of success.
The closest Pelphrey ever got to running an offense was a poorly taught flex.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:49 pm to Hogwall Jackson
quote:
Ok you're dumb. Pel had zero control of this program when he was here. No one was going to class and kids weren't graduating. Our APR got SO LOW WE LOST SCHOLARSHIPS. Rape algeations of players and commons arrests were frequent with Pel players.
The APR has had a huge impact, Mike has had to recruit guys who will go to class and get good grades as there was zero room for error, Arkansas was looking at a loss in practice time and further sanctions.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:51 pm to ocelot4ark
quote:
That's fine. I don't think you're an idiot for disagreeing with me. I think I just have a different expectation for the program than many (getting to the tournament vs succeeding in the tournament).
You say program while talking about team achievements.
Mike has tremendously improved the program that need to be rebuilt from the ground up.
He will get next year and most likely the year after to improve the team.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:55 pm to DaleDenton
Ok...... program as a whole.... much better. I will give MA that. On the court success. SLIGHTLY better. Granted MA inherited a dumpster fire. I will agree with others that say the system he teaches is not as effective as it once was. Not saying he can't win a NC with it. Just that it's a different environment than when Nolan was here. We tried to resurrect 40 minutes of Hell and I'm not sure that is do-able.
For the record I have not said that MA needs to go. I think less than 5 years to fix this mess would be a small miracle, I just don't yet see a method to the madness.
For the record I have not said that MA needs to go. I think less than 5 years to fix this mess would be a small miracle, I just don't yet see a method to the madness.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:56 pm to Stonehog
quote:
You realize you're complaining about the offense while we're first in the league in scoring and 15th in the country.
We're actually 3rd in conference if you only count conference games. Don't really care if we ran up the score on crappy teams prior to conference play. What I'M primarily concerned about is the field goal percentage (next to last in conference play at 38%). That is laughably bad. LINK
I wish I could find home/away splits for conference scoring, though. Regardless, our being able to score doesn't tell the whole story, IMO. It's how we score that matters. Watching the games, it's evident to me that we don't score well in the half court. You won't convince me that we do. It's the most crucial element of succeeding offensively. My eyes work. I've been an avid basketball fan for 20+ years, watching literally hundreds of games per year between college and the NBA. I can't convince myself that the problems I see with the system are just a mirage.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 1:02 pm to ElDawgHawg
quote:
Ok...... program as a whole.... much better. I will give MA that. On the court success. SLIGHTLY better. Granted MA inherited a dumpster fire. I will agree with others that say the system he teaches is not as effective as it once was. Not saying he can't win a NC with it. Just that it's a different environment than when Nolan was here. We tried to resurrect 40 minutes of Hell and I'm not sure that is do-able.
The system Mike uses is closest to the system Nolan used in 93-95 it isn't as dependent on the tempo of the game as Nolan's was.
Nolan's true system was closer to McLendon every touch of the ball leads to a fast break style, meaning in bounds, rebounds, steals, everything was a fast break to the basket, you saw this with May-Day here, and a shallow shell of itself with Reid, Hood, Bradley.
The difference isn't the hand-checking rules, its the lack of shooters in today's game. Sure you can find the guy who can spot up behind the arc or the guy who can soar over people for a dunk, finding the guys who can combine that with a 15 foot jump shot? Slim pickens.
The biggest problem is finding players who can score but will also play defense, mainly play hard, sound, fundamental defense.
There are also no roles in a motion offense, there is no hedging for rebounds by telling a kid he can't shoot anything but layups then running sets that puts him on the back side of the basket. Every player in the offense has to be able to score, looking to score, while looking to create scoring opportunities for others, looking to rebound, selfish players will cause the offense to grind to a halt.
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