Started By
Message
I'm going to Defend Butch and the Coaching Staff
Posted on 9/18/16 at 6:58 am
Posted on 9/18/16 at 6:58 am
lol Time to play Devil's Advocate
First off I want to say that with message board fans, myself included, things are never as good or bad as they seem. Now if you are in melt mode and fire everybody mood then just downvote this and don't bother reading. It will only annoy you.
To address the Ohio game if Dobbs doesn't overthrow a wide open Malone twice we win 42 to 19. ( I realize those throws change things) We also refuse to run Dobbs in games like this, so the offense is going to look bad. The coaches didn't make Williams drop an easy completion and turn it into an INT. The defense played great all things considered. Moseley still struggles when the ball is in the air and a true freshman got picked on a bit, but other than that they were great, again.
The passing game is very limited. Dobbs can not throw deep balls or even attack the intermediate game. The oline is not giving him much time if he could. Do we need a qb coach? Absolutely. Would Dobbs ever become a decent passer? I doubt it. Guys that struggle like he has rarely overcome it. So why does he play? Because he gives us the best chance to win. The guy is special running the ball. We have seen plenty of times where he looks damn near unstoppable when he sees that goal line. He is just as talented as Hurd and Kamara with the ball in his hands.
Getting the playmakers the ball. The passing limitations apply here. We do try to give Kamara looks. The shitty screens and swing passes. When he runs the end result aren't spectacular. He has yet to produce against a quality opponent. I think he is a pretty good college running back, but he hasn't showed us anything special yet.
I want to see Evan Berry on offense as much as anyone. But the coaches have gave him looks in practice and decided against it. The NFL is a different animal, but Hester was tGOAT return man and was a terrible receiver. Also he is fighting a hamstring issue.
The Oline. Missing our best tackle and Thomas is playing on a bad ankle. Butch's first class was not a good indication of his recruiting abilities. We don't have the luxury of seniors and redshirt seniors, so we start Richmond and an injured Thomas. Wiesman and Kendrick have been fine. Robertson is a one trick pony playing in the wrong scheme. Put a powerful 300+ DT in front of him and he looks like a beast. Any kind of quickness or asking him to block in space and he struggles. Heal up Hall and Thomas and start Jones, we might have something we can win big games with.
Linebacker recruiting. 3.5 years worth of recruiting has resulted in two absolute playmakers in JRM and Kirkland. JRM is the best pursuit linebacker in the country two years running. It is understandable to want him to stay in that role. Why make him think? Mcdowell is showing flashes. Bates and Bryant look the part but are busts at this point. It happens.
The defense has been hit with adversity and two hard to defend offenses so far. They have been excellent with all things considered.
My point is the coaching staff is not as incompetent as we are acting. Butch hasn't failed to meet expectations yet. He has made some blunders, but shite happens. Last year against Florida the coaches put the players in position to win. It was effort that lost it. If they make a routine tackle on a 10 yard curl we probably win. If they prevent a routine curl from going 61 fricking yards with minutes left to play we probably win. If Colton Jumper doesn't go full retard we probably beat Oklahoma. Arkansas' glaring weakness is pass defense. The coaches thought they could attack it last year. They were wrong. We didn't run Dobbs. Two mistakes on their parts.
Every fan will take an embarrassing win over a loss or a shitty moral victory. When we fail to meet expectations then melt. Until then enjoy football. It doesn't last long.
First off I want to say that with message board fans, myself included, things are never as good or bad as they seem. Now if you are in melt mode and fire everybody mood then just downvote this and don't bother reading. It will only annoy you.
To address the Ohio game if Dobbs doesn't overthrow a wide open Malone twice we win 42 to 19. ( I realize those throws change things) We also refuse to run Dobbs in games like this, so the offense is going to look bad. The coaches didn't make Williams drop an easy completion and turn it into an INT. The defense played great all things considered. Moseley still struggles when the ball is in the air and a true freshman got picked on a bit, but other than that they were great, again.
The passing game is very limited. Dobbs can not throw deep balls or even attack the intermediate game. The oline is not giving him much time if he could. Do we need a qb coach? Absolutely. Would Dobbs ever become a decent passer? I doubt it. Guys that struggle like he has rarely overcome it. So why does he play? Because he gives us the best chance to win. The guy is special running the ball. We have seen plenty of times where he looks damn near unstoppable when he sees that goal line. He is just as talented as Hurd and Kamara with the ball in his hands.
Getting the playmakers the ball. The passing limitations apply here. We do try to give Kamara looks. The shitty screens and swing passes. When he runs the end result aren't spectacular. He has yet to produce against a quality opponent. I think he is a pretty good college running back, but he hasn't showed us anything special yet.
I want to see Evan Berry on offense as much as anyone. But the coaches have gave him looks in practice and decided against it. The NFL is a different animal, but Hester was tGOAT return man and was a terrible receiver. Also he is fighting a hamstring issue.
The Oline. Missing our best tackle and Thomas is playing on a bad ankle. Butch's first class was not a good indication of his recruiting abilities. We don't have the luxury of seniors and redshirt seniors, so we start Richmond and an injured Thomas. Wiesman and Kendrick have been fine. Robertson is a one trick pony playing in the wrong scheme. Put a powerful 300+ DT in front of him and he looks like a beast. Any kind of quickness or asking him to block in space and he struggles. Heal up Hall and Thomas and start Jones, we might have something we can win big games with.
Linebacker recruiting. 3.5 years worth of recruiting has resulted in two absolute playmakers in JRM and Kirkland. JRM is the best pursuit linebacker in the country two years running. It is understandable to want him to stay in that role. Why make him think? Mcdowell is showing flashes. Bates and Bryant look the part but are busts at this point. It happens.
The defense has been hit with adversity and two hard to defend offenses so far. They have been excellent with all things considered.
My point is the coaching staff is not as incompetent as we are acting. Butch hasn't failed to meet expectations yet. He has made some blunders, but shite happens. Last year against Florida the coaches put the players in position to win. It was effort that lost it. If they make a routine tackle on a 10 yard curl we probably win. If they prevent a routine curl from going 61 fricking yards with minutes left to play we probably win. If Colton Jumper doesn't go full retard we probably beat Oklahoma. Arkansas' glaring weakness is pass defense. The coaches thought they could attack it last year. They were wrong. We didn't run Dobbs. Two mistakes on their parts.
Every fan will take an embarrassing win over a loss or a shitty moral victory. When we fail to meet expectations then melt. Until then enjoy football. It doesn't last long.
This post was edited on 9/18/16 at 9:09 am
Posted on 9/18/16 at 6:59 am to Kraven Moorehed
If we lose to Florida I will be pissed and call myself out for being a dumb homer. Until then debate me bitches.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 7:32 am to Kraven Moorehed
this was actually what I had been thinking while watching all of every Vol board on the internet blow a gasket after starting 3-0.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 7:37 am to Thatawesomeguy4
I'm not happy with the on the field product, but the meltdown mode some are in is premature. Even if they were easy wins we have won 9 in a row. I'm okay with it after 5-7 hell for the time being.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 7:41 am to Kraven Moorehed
quote:
If we lose to Florida I will be pissed and call myself out for being a dumb homer. Until then debate me bitches.
If we lose to Florida it will be just another coach and Tennessee team who couldn't beat Florida. Nothing uniquely Butch about Tennessee losing to Florida.
That said, I agree with your OP on the whole.
I disagree somewhat about Dobbs passing. He's thrown some beautiful passes and yes even deep balls so he is capable. His problem has always been consistency not ability. Given that, a QB coach might've been a great help to him but it might not. Some players are just never going to be consistent passers but when he runs we usually complete enough passes to win and honestly winning is all I care about.
However, like you mentioned the biggest point with Dobbs is that his magic is in running. This offense can't function if he doesn't run.
I think we're better off on defense than we think even with the injuries although it absolutely sucks to lose Cam and DKjr for these games.
Our OL, OTOH, is fricking killing us and that is driving me nuts.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 7:44 am to Thatawesomeguy4
quote:
this was actually what I had been thinking while watching all of every Vol board on the internet blow a gasket after starting 3-0.
Ugly winning is a hell of lot better than heroic losing but if you listen to the vol boards it's pretty clear that many liked heroically losing better.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 7:51 am to Prof
The thing with passing consistency is it so damn important. I agree Dobbs has a strong enough arm to make all the throws.
Butch hates turn overs and lives with analytics. Every post route thrown this year has been off the mark and every go route shaky at best. How could you ever ask him to throw those against a secondary with NFL players like Florida, Alabama, or Oklahoma when we can't make them against App state and Ohio?
I think the bad protection is causing him to panic and I don't blame him.
Butch hates turn overs and lives with analytics. Every post route thrown this year has been off the mark and every go route shaky at best. How could you ever ask him to throw those against a secondary with NFL players like Florida, Alabama, or Oklahoma when we can't make them against App state and Ohio?
I think the bad protection is causing him to panic and I don't blame him.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 8:07 am to Kraven Moorehed
quote:
Butch hates turn overs and lives with analytics. Every post route thrown this year has been off the mark and every go route shaky at best. How could you ever ask him to throw those against a secondary with NFL players like Florida, Alabama, or Oklahoma when we can't make them against App state and Ohio?
Part of the problem is that we've never given the passing game enough reps to work. If you look at first year QBs on teams that pass you often see a metric ton of INTs. Tyler Bray was one helluva passer and an INT machine. But we only pass when we get behind and then Dobbs turns into a magician when the offense is wide open and there's nothing to lose (Georgia and South Carolina are prime examples).
At some point, you have to give the passing game a chance to actually work and accept that there will be tons of errors as it works itself out and tbh, we should've done that last year but never did.
On the bright side, I'm actually encouraged by some of the things I've seen from Dobbs and the WRs. Malone has been playing lights out every game. And the WRs are starting to look better. He's connecting more but still has errant throws and probably always will except for when he has those games where he's in the zone. I mean there's a ton to work out but all isn't lost there.
quote:
I think the bad protection is causing him to panic and I don't blame him.
He never knows where the pressure is coming from with this OL. It's not like he knows 'ok I need to be careful of my RT.' He's got to be cautious of left, right, and straight up the middle.
This post was edited on 9/18/16 at 8:09 am
Posted on 9/18/16 at 8:48 am to Prof
The reps are 100% true. I think we have used these games to see what we have with passing game and work on it a bit to be fair.
Even if Hall comes back and forms a respectable tandem with Kendrick they will still give up sacks(the tackles) until we fix the interior. Dobbs can not step up with guys running free through the middle. Richmond played bad against VT but IIRC the first sack he gave up was more on Robertson. Richmond pushed his guy up field like a tackle should but Dobbs couldn't step up with a guy already in his face.
That "on the field analyst" might have been half right saying Richmond being new was causing Robertson trouble, but he sure as hell wasn't helping him.
Even if Hall comes back and forms a respectable tandem with Kendrick they will still give up sacks(the tackles) until we fix the interior. Dobbs can not step up with guys running free through the middle. Richmond played bad against VT but IIRC the first sack he gave up was more on Robertson. Richmond pushed his guy up field like a tackle should but Dobbs couldn't step up with a guy already in his face.
That "on the field analyst" might have been half right saying Richmond being new was causing Robertson trouble, but he sure as hell wasn't helping him.
This post was edited on 9/18/16 at 9:01 am
Posted on 9/18/16 at 8:55 am to Kraven Moorehed
Agreed. Dobbs throws for ~80% if his receivers don't drop so many passes. The INT is squarely on Williams as well. He seems to have finally developed trust in Malone. Overall, I believe Dobbs will be a top 3 SEC QB by year's end.
The OL has been pretty bad, but I am a firm believer in Hall being our best OL. Hall back at RT and Jack Jones at RG, with Weisman at C, would fix the OL in my opinion. Also think the OL will look a lot better once Dobbs has free reign to run as much as he sees fit.
Defense is worrisome, on account of the injuries. All in all the defense has played well enough to win 3 out of 3 games. With a healthy JRM, and in spite of Jumper starting, this defense has the tools to shut Florida's offense down.
I am not as confident in this team as I was at the start of the season, but I still think it can beat any team on the schedule.
A win next week completely changes the complexion of the season and the attitude of the fanbase. All you gotta do is win, Butch.
The OL has been pretty bad, but I am a firm believer in Hall being our best OL. Hall back at RT and Jack Jones at RG, with Weisman at C, would fix the OL in my opinion. Also think the OL will look a lot better once Dobbs has free reign to run as much as he sees fit.
Defense is worrisome, on account of the injuries. All in all the defense has played well enough to win 3 out of 3 games. With a healthy JRM, and in spite of Jumper starting, this defense has the tools to shut Florida's offense down.
I am not as confident in this team as I was at the start of the season, but I still think it can beat any team on the schedule.
A win next week completely changes the complexion of the season and the attitude of the fanbase. All you gotta do is win, Butch.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 9:46 am to Kraven Moorehed
Nothing wrong with looking at positives. I think the shortcomings are obvious but they can be fixed. We will see if adjustments are made.
After watching 3 games, nothing really excites me about this team. I would rather be looking forward to conference games but I am not right now.
Not negative or anything, just ambivalent.
After watching 3 games, nothing really excites me about this team. I would rather be looking forward to conference games but I am not right now.
Not negative or anything, just ambivalent.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 11:10 am to Robert Goulet
quote:
After watching 3 games, nothing really excites me about this team. I would rather be looking forward to conference games but I am not right now.
Not negative or anything, just ambivalent.
Watching a team grind out victories as opposed to outright curb stomping the opponent isn't fun and the matchups have made them even less fun. I think that's the problem a lot of fans are running into and why some are overreacting despite being 3-0. I'm pretty much in a similar boat with you in that I'm not negative but I'm not terribly excited either.
The potential is there for this team even now and yeah there do have to be some adjustments. However, what I dislike most about this team is they don't appear to have the edge that even CBJ's 5-7 team had. They've played most of all three games as though they would rather be somewhere else. Where the hell is the fire we've seen from every other CBJ coached team and this same one (personnel wise) last year?
This post was edited on 9/18/16 at 11:14 am
Posted on 9/18/16 at 11:12 am to HolographicCharizard
quote:
A win next week completely changes the complexion of the season and the attitude of the fanbase. All you gotta do is win, Butch.
Pretty much the bottom line and it doesn't matter how ugly it is the next few weeks either, as long as it's a W
This post was edited on 9/18/16 at 11:12 am
Posted on 9/18/16 at 11:26 am to Prof
quote:
Watching a team grind out victories as opposed to outright curb stomping the opponent isn't fun and the matchups have made them even less fun
I love watching a time grind it out against good teams, but what we have seen so far is mostly bad football against mediocre or bad teams.
quote:
However, what I dislike most about this team is they don't appear to have the edge that even CBJ's 5-7 team had. They've played most of all three games as though they would rather be somewhere else.
Bingo. I think this is why it is frustrating to watch. I am glad we still have players (Barnett, Hurd, etc.) that play their arse off all game. They look ill-prepared and disinterested.
I hope we see them come alive this week. I would not complain at all about a win no matter how ugly on Saturday.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 11:27 am to Kraven Moorehed
I just don't see how he'll be able to salvage himself if he loses to Florida.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 11:29 am to Robert Goulet
They can win ugly until the end of the day but I will bitch about it, there is no reason for this team to look like they do, we have most of our starters back and so far not a shell of what this team was last year.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 1:52 pm to DoUrden
I don't disagree. I just hope it gets figured out.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 2:38 pm to Robert Goulet
quote:
Bingo. I think this is why it is frustrating to watch. I am glad we still have players (Barnett, Hurd, etc.) that play their arse off all game. They look ill-prepared and disinterested.
I hope we see them come alive this week. I would not complain at all about a win no matter how ugly on Saturday.
Add Malone to that list of ballers. Despite some deserved criticism of his play in prior years, he's played with a lot of fire each game. And while we're talking about WRs/TEs... I gotta say Croom also had a good game (believe Ohio was his first real action) and he outperformed Wolf who underperformed, imo, given his talent level. Dobbs has had a past chemistry with Croom so I'm hopeful that we can get some production there in the passing game. He's a mismatch at TE that can really give D's hell if he keeps progressing and we utilize him more.
And definitely. We need to start performing up to our potential and soon but yeah, I wouldn't complain one bit about ANY win against UF.
The potential is there for this team and we've seen it even in some lousy performances, even if only briefly, but we've got to overcome whatever is holding us back (besides the line) or it will just be wasted potential and wasted potential is just hard to stomach.
This post was edited on 9/18/16 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 9/18/16 at 2:38 pm to Robert Goulet
People are not upset because of the ugly wins.
People are upset because of who the ugly wins are against.
Tennessee shouldn't look that bad vs App State and Ohio.
If those same games were played against Florida, Georgia, Alabama, etc... no one would care.
The level of competition should have dictated much cleaner victories, imho.
People are upset because of who the ugly wins are against.
Tennessee shouldn't look that bad vs App State and Ohio.
If those same games were played against Florida, Georgia, Alabama, etc... no one would care.
The level of competition should have dictated much cleaner victories, imho.
Posted on 9/18/16 at 2:54 pm to Ancient Rome
Agree. That's what I was getting at in my first reply to Prof. A championship football team doesn't struggle with these teams. On top of that, turnovers and penalties are commonplace and special teams have looked very average as well.
Popular
Back to top


5






