quote:
If one is claiming that the universe was created from nothing by nothing, then the burden of proof is to offer evidence that such a creative occurrence is a natural occurrence.

He didn't claim that it did happen that way, he claimed that you have to prove that it did not or could not have happened that way.

Right now, the question is agnostic as in: It cannot be known at this time or there is no evidence.

You are saying that it was caused by something supernatural, therefore it must be proven or you must provide evidence that there is something supernatural.

If it is outside of the "natural world", then how can you measure it? Could you ever prove it? Is your position reliant only on your faith that it is true?

We're saying we don't know, you're saying you do.

And doing a very bad job at arguing, which is kind of why William Lane Craig lost all credibility a while back.

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Posted by beejon

University Of Louisiana Warhawks

Member since Nov 2008

7959 posts

Posted on 1/19/15 at 12:02 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom

quote:
He didn't claim that it did happen that way, he claimed that you have to prove that it did not or could not have happened that way.

No, the burden of proof is to show that nothing producing something from nothing is within the constraints of natural laws.

quote:
Right now, the question is agnostic as in: It cannot be known at this time or there is no evidence.

Right now, for such a scenario to occur, it would be a supernatural occurrence.

quote:
You are saying that it was caused by something supernatural, therefore it must be proven or you must provide evidence that there is something supernatural.

I'm saying that there is 1) an uncaused first cause and 2) that an uncaused first cause isn't in agreement with natural laws therefore is supernatural. If one were to offer evidence that an uncaused first cause was within the occurrence of natural laws, then the uncaused first cause wouldn't be supernatural.

quote:
If it is outside of the "natural world", then how can you measure it? Could you ever prove it? Is your position reliant only on your faith that it is true?

"Outside of the natural world" is supernatural. The proof is that natural laws do not support the view that nothing creates something from nothing.

quote:
We're saying we don't know, you're saying you do.

"We don't know" is simply at attempt to deflect the focus from the fact that nothing producing something from nothing is a supernatural occurrence, not a natural occurrence.