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re: Does anyone actually believe this
Posted on 7/6/14 at 6:15 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Posted on 7/6/14 at 6:15 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Here's your problem.
You're stating the part where Dunn references what the passage may look like without his perceived interpolations but you don't actually give his interpretation of the passage without the interpolations.
Let me help you with that. Here is James Dunn's interpretation of the passage without the interpolations.
He STILL believes that, with interpolations omitted, Josephus spoke directly of a man named Jesus that was put to death by Pilate. He's not saying that with interpolations omitted Josephus spoke nothing of Jesus. So what is even your point?
You're stating the part where Dunn references what the passage may look like without his perceived interpolations but you don't actually give his interpretation of the passage without the interpolations.
Let me help you with that. Here is James Dunn's interpretation of the passage without the interpolations.
quote:
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man. For he was a doer of startling deeds, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. And he gained a following both among many Jews and many of Greek origin. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
He STILL believes that, with interpolations omitted, Josephus spoke directly of a man named Jesus that was put to death by Pilate. He's not saying that with interpolations omitted Josephus spoke nothing of Jesus. So what is even your point?
This post was edited on 7/6/14 at 6:21 pm
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Posted on 7/6/14 at 6:21 pm to Stacked
quote:
Not one man or theologian speaks for Christianity. Do you realize how many denominations there are. You act like by citing someone who's speaking for all of Christendom that his opinion is bigger than only that of one person.
In academic scholarship there is a consensus that the article has been interpolated.
quote:
And, you're stating the part where Dunn references what the passage may look like without his perceived interpolations but you don't actually give his interpretation of the passage without the interpolations.
Because the scope and scale of the interpolations vary immensely.
quote:
He STILL believes that, with interpolations omitted, Josephus spoke directly of a man named Jesus that was put to death by Pilate. He's not saying that with interpolations omitted Josephus spoke nothing of Jesus. So what is even your point?
The point is: Trying to reconstruct a statement that has no articles before the 11th century and having only Christian origins aren't an adequate source for Jesus.
The trouble, once again, comes from trying to determine what is true and what is not. They can guess
or even make educated guesses but Josephus is not regarded as a strong point for the existence of Jesus simply because wading through his testimony and its differences between texts is very, very difficult.
Most say that there is a reference, but that doesn't really say anything since it came after 60 years and even in spite of that: It's got known forgeries and suspected forgeries.
Dunn is Christian, and states that there are some forgeries (but the mention of Jesus is somehow not), but most agree that the nucleus is okay, just suspect.
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