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Butch Jones / UT
Posted on 7/20/13 at 9:04 am
Posted on 7/20/13 at 9:04 am
I don't think it's any secret that the SEC East isn't big enough for four teams to be great, and it doesn't look like UF or UGA are going anywhere for awhile (they may not be winning titles, but they aren't sliding to 7-5 either).
So that means it's a grudge match b/w us and UT. So, topics of discussion:
1) Butch Jones - How good is he? Can he coach? He can recruit, we know, but can he develop talent? What's the quality of his staff?
2) Recruiting - Can UT sustain it w/ a mediocre season? How a/b 2015? Tenn doesn't produce a ton of talent, so where are they getting it from? Who are the threats to cut into this new power base?
3) UT's Trajectory - If Butch isn't the guy, will that constitute enough down time for UT so as to ensconce us as the third East power in the minds of most? Would a quality coach hired in, say, 2017 after a failed Jones tenure find himself unable to resurrect the program? Is UT a rich enough program to have sleeping giant status no matter how many bad coaching decisions they make?
So that means it's a grudge match b/w us and UT. So, topics of discussion:
1) Butch Jones - How good is he? Can he coach? He can recruit, we know, but can he develop talent? What's the quality of his staff?
2) Recruiting - Can UT sustain it w/ a mediocre season? How a/b 2015? Tenn doesn't produce a ton of talent, so where are they getting it from? Who are the threats to cut into this new power base?
3) UT's Trajectory - If Butch isn't the guy, will that constitute enough down time for UT so as to ensconce us as the third East power in the minds of most? Would a quality coach hired in, say, 2017 after a failed Jones tenure find himself unable to resurrect the program? Is UT a rich enough program to have sleeping giant status no matter how many bad coaching decisions they make?
2
Posted on 7/20/13 at 9:37 am to CHSgc
quote:
Butch Jones - How good is he?
He was their 6th/7th choice for a HC, he has an overall winning record of 50-27 as a HC.
He was 27-13 at Central Michigan and 23-14 at Cinn. What is notable though was his first year at Cinn he was 4-8 but the 2nd year he was 10-3. He's won a MAC and Big East Championship.
quote:
He can recruit, we know, but can he develop talent?
I don't know enough about his past recruiting or teams to answer that.
quote:
What's the quality of his staff?
He brought a lot of his staff from Cinn. Jancek was the LB coach at uga from -05-09, how did they do then? Gillespie is there, he coached our RB's when Spurrier got here, he did ok.
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Recruiting - Can UT sustain it w/ a mediocre season?
Yes, they will spin to players "you see how bad we did, if you come here you can change that and start right away."
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How a/b 2015?
Maybe, but the spin won't be as effective as for the '14 class. That angle will fade every year.
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Tenn doesn't produce a ton of talent, so where are they getting it from?
They have a huge recruiting budget, it dwarfs ours, they can go all over to get recruits, just like Fulmer did. Their recruiting coord has OH ties so expect a lot of recruits from TN, KY and OH.
quote:
Who are the threats to cut into this new power base?
Everybody, with the ease of getting information on recruits, it's a lot easier for any school to recruit nationally. We're all going after the same recruits, some harder than others. Regionally, they'll compete with Vandy, Kent and Ohio State more directly. Also, they'll still be going after a lot of guys from GA.
quote:
3) UT's Trajectory - If Butch isn't the guy, will that constitute enough down time for UT so as to ensconce us as the third East power in the minds of most?
Not without hardware.
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Would a quality coach hired in, say, 2017 after a failed Jones tenure find himself unable to resurrect the program?
Depends on who it is. As long as they are willing to throw money at it, they'll eventually find something that works. I don't think their current guy is the guy, but they'll give him to atleast 2016 to see if he can do something (unless he really tanked a season with less than 4 wins.)
quote:
Is UT a rich enough program to have sleeping giant status no matter how many bad coaching decisions they make?
I would think so, but I know they are in financial trouble right now, they're nearly $200 million in debt.
Posted on 7/20/13 at 12:24 pm to CHSgc
quote:
) Butch Jones - How good is he?
Nobody will know until he plays in the SEC. They thought Dooley would be great because he did well at LaTech, but the SEC is a different animal. I don't GAS what the guy did at cincy, as of now he's still unproven when it comes to this league.
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2) Recruiting
This is the biggie for UT. They've never had in state talent so they've always pulled from GA, AL, etc. When they were good it was fine and they were recruiting nationally as well. The good thing from UT's perspective is they're still a top 10 all time program and a big 6er, so they have a lot to offer. All it'll take is a year or 2 of getting their shite together on the field and they'll pick right up. But their recruiting will likely be average at best until Butch starts putting together some good seasons, if he does.
quote:
3) UT's Trajectory - If Butch isn't the guy, will that constitute enough down time for UT so as to ensconce us as the third East power in the minds of most?
Depends on what kinda time frame you're looking at. I don't know anyone who DOESN'T think SC is a top 3 team in the east right NOW. They have been a few years, actually. But if you're talking like for good, I don't think there will ever be a coup in the east to dethrone UF/GA/UT as the big 3. That takes decades upon decades of winning and prestige to earn. And while SC is in the prime of their program's history, the last 5 years isn't enough to overcome the last 50.
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Would a quality coach hired in, say, 2017 after a failed Jones tenure find himself unable to resurrect the program?
No,
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Is UT a rich enough program to have sleeping giant status no matter how many bad coaching decisions they make?
Yes, and it's all because of the clout they have built up. Look no farther than alabama. From 93-07 they won only one SEC title. They had francionne skip out of town, then the mike price disaster, then had that loser shula. 03-06 was not a very good time in alabama history, and they fielded some BAD teams and suffered some BAD losses. But as we can see, all it took was hiring the right coach and in year 2 they were right back to where they used to be.
Same with tennessee, all it'll take is getting the right coach, then they'll win a few more games, then the recruiting will pick up, then they'll be back in the saddle. It's very fortunate for all of us that kiffin was a flake and dooley was absolutely horrendous. Hopefully butch will continue down that path.
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