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re: Coaching Changes Discussion - Chief locked up, what about rest?
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:23 am to Projectpat
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:23 am to Projectpat
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I'd rather have some other tangible (and intangible) qualities that drew coaches here.
Sure, I would love that too.....but we don't have them so we have to cover the gap with money.
I mean....are we really offering coaching stability? I know Sumlin has the big contract but he job is less secure than one of the best coaches in SEC history, or a guy who last year played in a title game. So there goes that tangible intangible.
USC has a recruiting dominance in their region and is the closest team to an almost untapped North Carolina and Virginia. Auburn has a recent national title (and a more recent national title trip) to sell. Oh and Boom has never publicly called out either of those cities as a place he doesn't like.
On this fight, all the intangibles outside of facilities are against us. So if we want Boom we have to make money the tangible reason to come.
I mean, I don't think Boom is a perfect slam dunk or the ONLY option. But if he goes to an Auburn, and they have more success than us going forward, it will really freaking hurt. It would be better if some non-SEC team got him, or even someone in the East like USC. I just hate we didn't steal MSU's coach way back when, him plus JFF would have been a BCS game at least.
Coaching hires are like asking out dates to the prom. You are going to experience rejection, but it hurts a lot more if one of your buds scores the date and the girl who rejected you is riding around in the limo yall rented all night.
This post was edited on 12/2/14 at 11:25 am
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Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:27 am to cardboardboxer
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but the bidding failure last time we went shopping for a DC
money is not our issue in any way, shape or form. We lost on Narduzzi (and other coaches) in 2012 because we gave Sumlin a hard cap of $2.2m to build a coaching staff. The big money had not coalesced around a head coach and many didn't like the way Sherman was let go. They weren't inclined to blindly open their checkbooks to a guy they didn't know (Sumlin).
That's not the case today. And virtually every request Sumlin has made in the last 2 years has been granted without fuss. Unlimited use of helicopter? Check. New lockerrooms? Check. Pay bump to staff? Check. We've gone from an assistant pool in 2012 of 2.2m to 4.5m today (and potentially higher). Sumlin has their undivided support.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:32 am to cardboardboxer
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but we don't have them so we have to cover the gap with money.
Well, agree to disagree on that point.
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I mean....are we really offering coaching stability? I know Sumlin has the big contract but he job is less secure than one of the best coaches in SEC history, or a guy who last year played in a title game.
Less secure probably, but Sumlin is nowhere close to being on the hot seat.
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USC has a recruiting dominance in their region and is the closest team to an almost untapped North Carolina and Virginia.
Recruiting is where we have the biggest advantage. We've been (and are currently) ranked higher than both Auburn and USC with more to come this year.
Overall everything has to be the right fit. A coach can succeed in one place and not another while being the same person, and it's the reason that a coach isn't always going to chase the biggest paycheck. We can't just throw money at any problems that come up is my point, and this knife always cuts both ways.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:35 am to Projectpat
We are "stuck" with Sumlin. He's 1 year into a 6 year deal. Say he goes winless next year and we want to fire him. Get ready to write a 20 million check to cover year 3-6.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:37 am to tmc94
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Sumlin has their undivided support.
Sure tmc95, I can see that. I wasn't really thinking that a lack of support is a problem, everyone I talked to loves the idea of Boom. If it came down to a million or two all it would take is one email and a hat passed around to cover the gap. I don't think we can be outbid.
With that said, I think we have what I call the "Texas Problem." Namely, that Texas's philosophy of "we can pay whoever we want whatever we want" isn't true at all because no matter your AD budget you are part of a community both in the sport and outside it. In the sport if you pay too much for a coach and really move that bar of salaries for everyone you can quickly become a villain. That is what happened to Texas somewhat IMHO. Outside the sport these coaches quickly become some of the highest paid public employees in the state, which invites criticism both inside academia and outside of it when you are blowing millions a year on a guy who isn't the head coach.
I think there is a ceiling of how much we would pay an assistant coach politically, and I think thanks to SEC Network money any SEC team could hit that same ceiling too if they wanted to. That means we have to stand out on intangibles, which works against us right now.
First choices aren't always best choices, and it should all work out. But if Boom takes the Auburn job over ours and that is pretty public that will really hurt fan confidence in Sumlin's regime.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:40 am to cardboardboxer
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Oh and Boom has never publicly called out either of those cities as a place he doesn't like.
You realize KK coached for us two years ago right? That kind of shite makes no difference to a coach when they get offered millions of dollars.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:41 am to Farmer1906
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We are "stuck" with Sumlin.
I sure as hell hope we are.
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Say he goes winless next year and we want to fire him. Get ready to write a 20 million check to cover year 3-6.
Say he wins the national championship and we've got a great coach. What's your point?
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:42 am to Projectpat
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Well, agree to disagree on that point.
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Sumlin is nowhere close to being on the hot seat.
Sure, but it isn't something that is an advantage for us.
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Recruiting is where we have the biggest advantage. We've been (and are currently) ranked higher than both Auburn and USC with more to come this year.
But I think Boom has a unique perspective on that, seeing as how he coached at Texas when they were eating our freaking lunch in recruiting. We are a newcomer to the "top 10 Class" club, Auburn isn't.
quote:
Overall everything has to be the right fit. A coach can succeed in one place and not another while being the same person, and it's the reason that a coach isn't always going to chase the biggest paycheck. We can't just throw money at any problems that come up is my point, and this knife always cuts both ways.
Agreed 100%. One problem is if we throw everything at Boom then maybe we don't have the money to replace the OC if that needs to happen next season, or the next head coach might have a miniscule budget starting off which starts the cycle all over again.
Again, I don't mind if we don't get Boom as long as he rejects us for a Michigan and not Auburn.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:45 am to Projectpat
My point is that he cant be on the hot seat for another 3-4 years,
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:45 am to WhiskerBiscuitSlayer
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You realize KK coached for us two years ago right? That kind of shite makes no difference to a coach when they get offered millions of dollars.
I do realize that, money changes everything.
With that said, when we and Auburn/USC are all offering the same or similar money then it becomes "where do my wife and I want to live?" I was just pointing out unlike the other two Boom has given an opinion on College Station.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:47 am to cardboardboxer
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With that said, when we and Auburn/USC are all offering the same or similar money then it becomes "where do my wife and I want to live?" I was just pointing out unlike the other two Boom has given an opinion on College Station.
Apparently his wife loves Austin. Buy here a house there. Take the copter back and forth. He'll be making more than Sumlin.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:49 am to cardboardboxer
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On this fight, all the intangibles outside of facilities are against us
what? Look I know many here are melting but I'm perplexed anyone really thinks this.
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are we really offering coaching stability?
The only thing that will derail this staff is a bad DC hire. So unless you think you suck as a DC, then yes, it's about as stable a place as anywhere.
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USC has a recruiting dominance in their region and is the closest team to an almost untapped North Carolina and Virginia
SC has never recruited on the level we are right now. And NC and VA don't add up to Houston talent, much less DFW, LA or AZ. And if SC had an advantage in those states, why aren't Sweat or Deberry, the top two area talents in years, considering them at all? They recruit SC, GA, and FL and those areas are ALL heavily contested. They touch NC to a lesser extent but not at all VA.
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Auburn has a recent national title (and a more recent national title trip) to sell
yep. That's not really a sales job you know. I mean as an incoming coach, you don't get any credit for that and in fact, it may be a negative if you really think that through. This isn't a 17yo high school kid. It's a long-tenured coach that is looking out for his future.
If you are thoughtful about the situation, there's a lot more to be gained via quick success at A&M than Auburn. Take Auburn to the playoff and Malzahn brought them back. Take A&M to the playoff and you are the reason. Both are pretty good situations honestly as both have young talent. But this isn't some obvious flaw for us
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Oh and Boom has never publicly called out either of those cities as a place he doesn't like
man you are still going overboard with a good natured shot. Muschamp has been to BCS twice I believe and both times he was coaching. He probably never set foot outside the hotel. The idea that he even has a real opinion about BCS is amusing.
I'm not at all saying we'll get Muschamp but some of y'alls reasoning is nothing more than low self-esteem
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:49 am to cardboardboxer
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Sure tmc95
you're officially on my shite list
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:54 am to tmc94
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:59 am to tmc94
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The only thing that will derail this staff is a bad DC hire. So unless you think you suck as a DC, then yes, it's about as stable a place as anywhere.
Our DC hire is going to make or break Sumlin's career, which means it will make or break the career of any DC we hire.
If I am Boom, I am not looking for a longterm job. I am looking for a place I can hangout for a year or two that doesn't hurt my chance at being a head coach for some PAC team afterwards. Our DC position has a lot of pressure tied to it, especially compared to someplace like a USC where OBC absorbs all the heat for you if things go south.
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SC has never recruited on the level we are right now.
They don't have to, they are in the SEC East. Heck, we need to recruit better than we have been doing in the West, even Sumlin said so.
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Both are pretty good situations honestly as both have young talent.
Sure, I agree with that. Any other offseason and we would be the best job out there that isn't an entire staff replacement.
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I'm not at all saying we'll get Muschamp but some of y'alls reasoning is nothing more than low self-esteem
Maybe, maybe not. I am usually a sunshine pumper for A&M but I don't like this offseason to be hiring a DC. In retrospect we should have fired him after last season.
Oh well, better than looking for a head coach right now. Nebraska, UF, and Michigan and screwed- all the obvious good options that you can actually get got taken last cycle.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 12:00 pm to tmc94
Posted on 12/2/14 at 12:06 pm to cardboardboxer
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USC has a recruiting dominance in their region and is the closest team to an almost untapped North Carolina and Virginia.
Actually, Clemson typically has a slightly higher rated class than USC.
I get that there are some things working for Auburn, such as wife's preference, but if Muschamp really has ambitions of returning to the coaching ranks, is he really going to take an inferior career opportunity just for the sake of living in a familiar place for two years before leaving again? Because he's not going to get Malzahn's job anytime soon. If he really is thinking about looking to be a HC after a two-year stint as a DC, then his wife isn't going to be living in Auburn for very long.
If he thinks that A&M has better defensive talent on campus and coming in, then coupled w/ opportunity for a huuuge turnaround presented by our current dismal defensive ranking, a persuasive pitch can certainly be made.
That said, he isn't the only fish in the sea. Let's assume he's the best available, but he goes somewhere else. If we merely get a good DC, or even a DECENT DC, that will make an enormous difference. And with names like Venables, Narduzzi, Foster, even Randy Shannon floating around, we aren't SOL if Muschamp doesn't come to Aggieland.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 12:10 pm to tmc94
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I'm not at all saying we'll get Muschamp but some of y'alls reasoning is nothing more than low self-esteem
It's based on history.
Fran had a DC to replace, offered big names, wound up hiring Gary Darnell out of an insurance agency.
Sherman had a DC hire to make, we heard big names, he wound up hiring Joe Kines out of a nursing home.
Sumlin had a DC hire to make, offered Nard Dog, got rejected, and hired Snyder.
It's going to happen again.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 12:14 pm to Cooter Davenport
Exception.
In 2010, Sherman hired the hottest DC commodity at the time, who was Tim DeRuyter
Sherman was fired because he refused to cede playcalling to an OC and because he was giving year 1 excuses in year 4.
In 2010, Sherman hired the hottest DC commodity at the time, who was Tim DeRuyter
Sherman was fired because he refused to cede playcalling to an OC and because he was giving year 1 excuses in year 4.
This post was edited on 12/2/14 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 12/2/14 at 12:16 pm to Cooter Davenport
I've never seen BAS so personified
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