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re: X and O on how to stop JFF. What would consultants/coach types say
Posted on 9/9/13 at 8:29 pm to WreckingCrue
Posted on 9/9/13 at 8:29 pm to WreckingCrue
Saban calls it a "mush rush"
Basically have your DL stand up the OL and watch the QB. No advancing up field, just watch the QB. Johnny makes two reads and then panics and runs. He is as elusive as they come but he runs like dogs are after him. It's a skittish run, albeit effective.
The mush rush doesn't give him anywhere to run, there are no creases to run through, only a wall to run around. It was deployed successfully against Tebow in '09 because a lot of those guys saw what he could do in '08 and bought into the strategy. I've heard Saban talk about last years tamu game and basically say they planned perfectly for it but the players didn't buy into the strategy, that they wanted to get after him and didn't stick to the plan. He said in the second quarter they basically said, "you're right coach"
Now they know what he can do, just like the defenders against Florida in '09. Now you are fricked Johnny, now you are fricked.
Basically have your DL stand up the OL and watch the QB. No advancing up field, just watch the QB. Johnny makes two reads and then panics and runs. He is as elusive as they come but he runs like dogs are after him. It's a skittish run, albeit effective.
The mush rush doesn't give him anywhere to run, there are no creases to run through, only a wall to run around. It was deployed successfully against Tebow in '09 because a lot of those guys saw what he could do in '08 and bought into the strategy. I've heard Saban talk about last years tamu game and basically say they planned perfectly for it but the players didn't buy into the strategy, that they wanted to get after him and didn't stick to the plan. He said in the second quarter they basically said, "you're right coach"
Now they know what he can do, just like the defenders against Florida in '09. Now you are fricked Johnny, now you are fricked.
This post was edited on 9/9/13 at 8:30 pm
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Posted on 9/9/13 at 8:39 pm to Mizzou to my Lou
WRONG ON DON'T BREAK CONTAIN.
Bama played A&M the same way they played Tebow and Denard in the 1st quarter and got beind 20 - 0 , then started blitzing in the 2nd period.
JFF can pass , unlike Tebow and Denard so you must blitz him with your superior atheletes and make him make mistakes.
You can't contain because he can pass and like Fran Tarkington , can keep plays alive , then hit someone deep , so you have to bring pressure from all different directions whilst disguising it pre snap.
Bama played A&M the same way they played Tebow and Denard in the 1st quarter and got beind 20 - 0 , then started blitzing in the 2nd period.
JFF can pass , unlike Tebow and Denard so you must blitz him with your superior atheletes and make him make mistakes.
You can't contain because he can pass and like Fran Tarkington , can keep plays alive , then hit someone deep , so you have to bring pressure from all different directions whilst disguising it pre snap.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 8:43 pm to S.E.C. Crazy
quote:
JFF can pass , unlike Tebow and Denard so you must blitz him with your superior atheletes and make him make mistakes.
No. Lsu got after him by making him run around the end and having their superior athletes beat him to point A. Johnny runs scared. He makes two reads and tucks it away, but his straight line speed isn't world class. Make him run around the end and the backers and safeties will beat him there and wreck his shite.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 9:06 pm to Riseupfromtherubble
LSU had small fast linemen last year , most d-linemen are big and slow , hence the blitz.
Watch last years game again, once we started blitzing , he looked like shyt.
Watch last years game again, once we started blitzing , he looked like shyt.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 9:08 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
Then what happens when A&M starts running their 240lb RB against that front again and again and again and again no huddle so you can't substitute?
I don't believe you have the OL you had last year, and thus don't believe you'll be able to run down my throat with a 3 man Bear front. You'll likely have to run off tackle which I believe I can stop.
Posted on 9/10/13 at 11:42 am to therick711
quote:
LSU doesn't play a 4-2-5. They did start in the Nickel package though.
Isn't a nickel package with 4 down lineman the same thing as a 4-2-5? A nickel package with 3 down linemen would be a 3-3-5? LSU started in a 4-2-5 that game I'm pretty sure.
Posted on 9/10/13 at 12:49 pm to WreckingCrue
Anything but that prevent crap that Bama used in the first quarter last year.
I'd run a lot of stunts and blitzes to force him out of the pocket and put a spy on him. When Manziel has the option to either run or stay in the pocket, that's when he is the most dangerous. If you force him to run, you make him more one-dimensional. He's a great athlete so he will still make plays regardless but making him more predictable would go a long way in slowing him down.
I'd run a lot of stunts and blitzes to force him out of the pocket and put a spy on him. When Manziel has the option to either run or stay in the pocket, that's when he is the most dangerous. If you force him to run, you make him more one-dimensional. He's a great athlete so he will still make plays regardless but making him more predictable would go a long way in slowing him down.
Posted on 9/10/13 at 12:57 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
I don't believe you have the OL you had last year, and thus don't believe you'll be able to run down my throat with a 3 man Bear front.
That'd be extremely risky to assume IMO.
It really would depend on the RB the Aggies had back there at the time y'all go to that front.
Posted on 9/10/13 at 1:00 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
Isn't a nickel package with 4 down lineman the same thing as a 4-2-5? A nickel package with 3 down linemen would be a 3-3-5? LSU started in a 4-2-5 that game I'm pretty sure.
Very true in the true sense
This post was edited on 9/10/13 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 9/10/13 at 1:03 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
LSU started in a 4-2-5 that game I'm pretty sure.
John Chavis’ (LSU) system is a 4-2-5 run out of 4-3 personnel, as was Vic Koenning’s. They simply drop one of those extra SS into the box often and this dictates some of the front alignments they show.
Posted on 9/10/13 at 1:09 pm to WreckingCrue
1.) keep him off the field. Long sustained Offensive drives shoudln't be too hard on that defense. The cannot stop the run
2) Disciplined DE gotta stay on their assignments and contain.
3) good coverage.
2) Disciplined DE gotta stay on their assignments and contain.
3) good coverage.
Posted on 9/10/13 at 1:42 pm to GetmorewithLes
You can what we did last year here: LSU-Texas A&M '12
Posted on 9/10/13 at 1:47 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
sn't a nickel package with 4 down lineman the same thing as a 4-2-5? A nickel package with 3 down linemen would be a 3-3-5? LSU started in a 4-2-5 that game I'm pretty sure.
LSU did start with 4 downlinemen, 2 backers, and 5 DBS. however, saying it's a 4-2-5 defense is right only in numerics. A 4-2-5 is more of what TCU or USCjr runs in taht the fronts and stunts of the Dline are completely different.
A 4-2-5 nickel is simply called a nickel package.
Posted on 9/10/13 at 1:50 pm to AlwysATgr
quote:
You can what we did last year here: LSU-Texas A&M '12
Except the Ags have a power back in Carson and Malena is stronger. Don't make us other LSU fans look like tards with this shittalking crap in a decent thread.
We did a great job once we switched to the Mustang package last year, but that shite won't work this year. Gonna have to disguise blitzes and basically do what Washington did to Philadelphia in the 2nd half of last night's game.
Disguise your blitzes. Have your DEs keep contain and play press with your CBs.
Posted on 9/10/13 at 1:58 pm to Moustache
quote:
Disguise your blitzes. Have your DEs keep contain and play press with your CBs.
I tend to agree with this. Manziel is a good enough passer and has good enough receivers to win with his arm if they strategy is a simple "mush rush" like Saban used successfully against Florida in the 2009 SECCG. I think Alabama has to be a little more aggressive than that but has to disguise it well.
Bottom line is I think you have to try and confuse Manziel about when the pressure is going to come and where it is going to come from. Make him uncomfortable and start overthinking.
Posted on 9/10/13 at 2:00 pm to finestfirst79
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But he's obviously a better passer this year - mostly staying in the pocket and throwinng perfect 20-40 yard passes.
Wait until you have DBs that can cover. Just have the DL keep contain. UF blitzed in the 1st half and he made us pay. No blitzes in the 2nd half and he struggled. We will see if Bama can cover.
Posted on 9/10/13 at 2:20 pm to bigDgator
I think you play a lot of dime against him and spy him with a safety type player that may have better speed than an LB. Then you have to be exotic with your blitz package. bring edge pressure and keep contain with base techniques inside and only give him one way out of the pocket. that way you have a better chance of tackling him in the open field. From what I've seen DC's seem to be afraid of him instead of really trying to get pressure on him.... I think LSU and Bama just need to bring pressure and knock the piss out of him. If I'm a DC I might even take a late hit just to get the point across that we are gonna be in your face PUNK.
Posted on 9/10/13 at 2:26 pm to TigerBait2008
quote:
LSU and UF didn't seem to have that much trouble..
This. Johnny and the rest of the offense will play exactly the same as they did in these 2 games.
Posted on 9/10/13 at 2:28 pm to ElDawgHawg
I like the basketball defense ideology of taking everything away from him and letting him get his points.
Can J.F play effectively after running 200yds? 300yd?
In other words I think by letting him play his game and shutting down the run and outlet pass you tire him out Rocky style.
Can J.F play effectively after running 200yds? 300yd?
In other words I think by letting him play his game and shutting down the run and outlet pass you tire him out Rocky style.
Posted on 9/10/13 at 2:56 pm to Jobu93
quote:
That's the conventional wisdom and its sound but he's a hell of a lot more accurate this year. It's like he's an actual QB and not just an athlete back there.
Actually even last year and maybe even more so now JFF can flat out throw the ball. That is why he is so damm good. Otherwise every team would just put an athlete back there.
I think you have to go with a smaller faster lineup on D. Those big RBs may chunk some yards but you avoid the 1 minute scoring drives that spread Os live for.
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