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X and O on how to stop JFF. What would consultants/coach types say
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:33 pm
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:33 pm
Hoping for coaching types here that know more than me about xs and os. Serious discussion.
It seems to me you spy a linebacker. You keep from breaking on him too fast from the DL - but this gives more time so win loss. Obviously I feel Saban is thinking of stopping that spinning out of the pocket thing he does. But..
If you bring to much attention to his scramble instead of scooting a 12 yd run at the flag for a first he pulls up because of impact before the first and hits rb or other trailing wr in the gap.
It seems like this is the kind of thing A&M is working on.
Thoughts?
It seems whatever you do it is trouble.
If you don't spy and pay special attention to his scramble its trouble also. Plus our Rbs are loaded and Malena is onions catching from backfield.
It seems to me you spy a linebacker. You keep from breaking on him too fast from the DL - but this gives more time so win loss. Obviously I feel Saban is thinking of stopping that spinning out of the pocket thing he does. But..
If you bring to much attention to his scramble instead of scooting a 12 yd run at the flag for a first he pulls up because of impact before the first and hits rb or other trailing wr in the gap.
It seems like this is the kind of thing A&M is working on.
Thoughts?
It seems whatever you do it is trouble.
If you don't spy and pay special attention to his scramble its trouble also. Plus our Rbs are loaded and Malena is onions catching from backfield.
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Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:36 pm to WreckingCrue
quote:
It seems whatever you do it is trouble.
LSU and UF didn't seem to have that much trouble..
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:37 pm to WreckingCrue
No spies just don't break contain.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:37 pm to WreckingCrue
Problem with spy linebacker is if they are in the middle, they won't be fast enough to keep him from turning the corner.
What I saw last year was how undisciplined opposing defensive ends were. Especially Oklahoma's. They would be sucked in and lose contain play after play, and would never learn from their mistake.
I know it sounds simple, but if the defensive ends just stay home and don't get sucked in and try to tackle him for a loss, he won't turn the corner. I know tackles for loss and sacks sound appealing but if you miss, he is going to get a first down.
What I saw last year was how undisciplined opposing defensive ends were. Especially Oklahoma's. They would be sucked in and lose contain play after play, and would never learn from their mistake.
I know it sounds simple, but if the defensive ends just stay home and don't get sucked in and try to tackle him for a loss, he won't turn the corner. I know tackles for loss and sacks sound appealing but if you miss, he is going to get a first down.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:37 pm to TigerBait2008
quote:
LSU and UF didn't seem to have that much trouble..
I think the offense and Manziel have gotten a lot better since those games. Hell he hardly threw the ball against Florida.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:39 pm to TigerBait2008
I think LSU had the perfect athletes. A ton of NFL players on the fast side on the DL. DBS that could stay on the Wrs long enough for the troops to haul him in.
Fla. was first game the kid had played in 2 years. and they had a good D.
It still doesn't mean you don't coach X and O. Right?
Fla. was first game the kid had played in 2 years. and they had a good D.
It still doesn't mean you don't coach X and O. Right?
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:39 pm to WreckingCrue
Whatever LSU did last year. Do that.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:39 pm to WreckingCrue
Keep him between the tackles and stay gap sound. Don't rush up the field! Make him a pocket passer as much as possible.
Cover the receivers and tackle them immediately. No missed tackles!
Cover the receivers and tackle them immediately. No missed tackles!
This post was edited on 9/9/13 at 4:41 pm
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:45 pm to Gator5220
LSU did it right because their defensive ends did not get greedy.
Too many opposing defensive ends have seen Johnny start to scramble, looking for an open receiver, and try to go full steam ahead at him trying to get a sack in the back field before he gets a pass off. They get over aggressive and Johnny slips by them.
Instead, they need to stay home and be disciplined, and keep contain. I know, I know, "If we don't tackle him he will get a pass off!". That is what you want him to do. If he is scrambling, he has no open receiver. Johnny is a better runner than passer, so take your chances with him throwing the ball instead of running for a first down. LSU did that and he threw 3 picks.
If contain is kept, he either throws the ball, or has to scramble up the middle. Better that than him scrambling and turning the corner.
Too many opposing defensive ends have seen Johnny start to scramble, looking for an open receiver, and try to go full steam ahead at him trying to get a sack in the back field before he gets a pass off. They get over aggressive and Johnny slips by them.
Instead, they need to stay home and be disciplined, and keep contain. I know, I know, "If we don't tackle him he will get a pass off!". That is what you want him to do. If he is scrambling, he has no open receiver. Johnny is a better runner than passer, so take your chances with him throwing the ball instead of running for a first down. LSU did that and he threw 3 picks.
If contain is kept, he either throws the ball, or has to scramble up the middle. Better that than him scrambling and turning the corner.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:47 pm to Texas Tea
Quote:
__________________________________________________
Problem with spy linebacker is if they are in the middle, they won't be fast enough to keep him from turning the corner.
What I saw last year was how undisciplined opposing defensive ends were. Especially Oklahoma's. They would be sucked in and lose contain play after play, and would never learn from their mistake.
I know it sounds simple, but if the defensive ends just stay home and don't get sucked in and try to tackle him for a loss, he won't turn the corner. I know tackles for loss and sacks sound appealing but if you miss, he is going to get a first down.
____________________________
Good response. I hear this a lot and must admit I understand but not completely. Are they told to hold ground and not go forward even if then feel they have their guy beat.
Or am I missing the boat here. I will bring up and get laughed at but its ok - I played outside linebacker some in HS and making sure play was turned inside was priority but you had to read play. Someone like JFF could make me look like a fool start going in, I come in then go around.
Im thinking maybe that's it. Its hard to realize a guy is so fast you cant make a play - that you must kind of just stand your ground like a cattle herd.
That make any sense?
__________________________________________________
Problem with spy linebacker is if they are in the middle, they won't be fast enough to keep him from turning the corner.
What I saw last year was how undisciplined opposing defensive ends were. Especially Oklahoma's. They would be sucked in and lose contain play after play, and would never learn from their mistake.
I know it sounds simple, but if the defensive ends just stay home and don't get sucked in and try to tackle him for a loss, he won't turn the corner. I know tackles for loss and sacks sound appealing but if you miss, he is going to get a first down.
____________________________
Good response. I hear this a lot and must admit I understand but not completely. Are they told to hold ground and not go forward even if then feel they have their guy beat.
Or am I missing the boat here. I will bring up and get laughed at but its ok - I played outside linebacker some in HS and making sure play was turned inside was priority but you had to read play. Someone like JFF could make me look like a fool start going in, I come in then go around.
Im thinking maybe that's it. Its hard to realize a guy is so fast you cant make a play - that you must kind of just stand your ground like a cattle herd.
That make any sense?
This post was edited on 9/9/13 at 4:53 pm
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:50 pm to goldennugget
That's the conventional wisdom and its sound but he's a hell of a lot more accurate this year. It's like he's an actual QB and not just an athlete back there.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:50 pm to goldennugget
However Bama contained cam newton in 2010 would be a good start that crap we pulled last year certainly didn't work. I hope we took our shiftiest player on the team and made the defense play contain and practice tackling in the open field all week. He killed us with his ability to scramble and create time last year.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:52 pm to WreckingCrue
Once an end goes vertical or even a LB goes vertical Johnny has him beat.
If you spy you demand that LB (or converted safety for the game) stays parallel to the line of scrimmage.
If you spy you demand that LB (or converted safety for the game) stays parallel to the line of scrimmage.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:53 pm to WreckingCrue
Florida got lucky and caught Manziel before he really had a grasp of what was going on. They play any other week of the season, Texas A&M wins running away, especially Bowl season.
LSU on the other hand used scheme and athleticism. Start with a 4-2-5, but they were too aggressive... they switched to a 3-2-6 with their outside corners playing really shallow zones.
LSU on the other hand used scheme and athleticism. Start with a 4-2-5, but they were too aggressive... they switched to a 3-2-6 with their outside corners playing really shallow zones.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:55 pm to TeLeFaWx
Our big slots would cause fits with a 3-2-6
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:56 pm to WreckingCrue
quote:
Good response. I hear this a lot and must admit I understand but not completely. Are they told to hold ground and not go forward even if then feel they have their guy beat.
Or am I missing the boat here. I will bring up and get laughed at but its ok - I played outside linebacker some in HS and making sure play was turned inside was priority but you had to read play. Someone like JFF could make me look like a fool start going in, I come in then go around.
Im thinking maybe that's it. Its hard to realize a guy is so fast you cant make a play - that you must kind of just stand your ground like a cattle herd.
That make any sense?
Contain means no one gets outside of you. Redirect everything inside. Problem is that if the corner is playing man coverage, the defensive end/linebacker is responsible for contain. And too many times last year we saw either the defensive end/linebacker, responsible for contain, get sucked in like a vacuum leaving no one outside.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:56 pm to WreckingCrue
The defensive limemen have to push the OLine back into Manziel. They have to stay in their lanes, meanign keep the pocket, but make the pocket collapse around Manziel, so he can't duck outsied. MUCH harder to do than it sounds. I would also have a LB spy Manziel and sit and wait on him to break from the pocket, because he will, eventually. But the main thing is muddying up the pocket by pushing his OLine back into him. You really don't care if you sack him so much as keep him in the pocket. most mobile QBs just don't feel as comfortable in the pocket and their accuracy seems to suffer.
Key...you just want to keep him in the pocket without giving him all day. You will get to him, but not as much as you want. You mainly want him to FEEL like he is being pressured.
Key...you just want to keep him in the pocket without giving him all day. You will get to him, but not as much as you want. You mainly want him to FEEL like he is being pressured.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:56 pm to WreckingCrue
Don't pressure him with anyone but 4 down linemen. Put your fastest LBs in the game. Play zone with underneath coverage and flats. Play contain on the DL.
That's about it. A&M's response is running the football and play-action pass.
That's about it. A&M's response is running the football and play-action pass.
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:56 pm to WreckingCrue
i just hope saban hired a consultant.
Now I'm really worried
Now I'm really worried
Posted on 9/9/13 at 4:56 pm to Jobu93
Gotcha.
I can see how hard it would be to keep disciplined that long. Some of JFF's plays take forever. Players may be thinking "hell by now I our last chance, I better dive at him" - then he is gone.
Interesting stuff.
So basically the scheme is likely the same, I'm sure with different wrinkles. But likely working a lot on discipline and not letting field break down. Which he loves.
I can see how hard it would be to keep disciplined that long. Some of JFF's plays take forever. Players may be thinking "hell by now I our last chance, I better dive at him" - then he is gone.
Interesting stuff.
So basically the scheme is likely the same, I'm sure with different wrinkles. But likely working a lot on discipline and not letting field break down. Which he loves.
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