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Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:25 pm to attheua
quote:
If Wallace could say no to the President, he could damn sure say no to Bryant.
He tried to say no to the President. It didn't work.
But I agree that in '63, when Wallace said no to the President, he could've said no to Bryant.
I think the issue is a little cloudier in say, '65 or '66.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:28 pm to DWag215
quote:
In other words, if you give Bear the power he eventually had in Alabama and align it with the height of Wallace's reign, I think the Bear wins out.
Then you are crazy. Governor Wallace was without a doubt the most powerful southern figure since Robert E. Lee.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:29 pm to DWag215
I'm not reading this, but congrats on getting an off season thread 7 pages 10-11 games into the season. nice jar
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:30 pm to DWag215
quote:
He tried to say no to the President. It didn't work.
Actually...Wallace didn't try to say no to the President. Kennedy called Wallace and told him to let the black students in. Wallace said, "Yes, sir. But let me at least look good in front of my constituency."
Wallace's stand in the school house door was nothing but political theater. He had every intention of letting those students in. He just wanted to be seen by the voting public as a man after the interests of his people.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:33 pm to RollTide1987
Why doesn't aTm recruit more Mexicans ?
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:34 pm to DWag215
quote:
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Wallace in his prime > Bryant in his prime.
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I don't want to disagree with you, because I'm quite sure your knowledge on Alabama history is more complete than mine.
But I find it hard to believe that anyone in that state was more powerful than Bear Bryant in his prime.
In other words, if you give Bear the power he eventually had in Alabama and align it with the height of Wallace's reign, I think the Bear wins out. Wallace led a state that ranked near dead last in several meaningful categories (literacy, public highways, etc.). He was also vilified by much of the country.
I think one reason Alabama became so proud of football is because it served as an escape from much of the national embarrassment Wallace was responsible for bringing to the state.
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Son, you've either spent too much time listening to some pinko pointy-headed (a favorite expression of Gov. Wallace) professor rewriting history for his naive students, or you've been watching too much public television. I'd suggest that you talk to some of us old folks that lived through the time to get the real truth.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:35 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Governor Wallace was without a doubt the most powerful southern figure since Robert E. Lee.
His place in office depended upon his popularity.
Assume Bear takes over Bama in '48 instead of '58 and produces at the same rate. Had Wallace publicly opposed Bear on any matter that directly affected Bama football (such as allowing blacks to play beginning in '63), Wallace would've been a very unpopular man.
Just my opinion.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:37 pm to RollTide1987
Interesting stuff.
Do you think he would've said no to Bear in '65? Let's assume Bear made his desire to admit blacks publicly known.
Do you think he would've said no to Bear in '65? Let's assume Bear made his desire to admit blacks publicly known.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:39 pm to coachcrisp
quote:
'd suggest that you talk to some of us old folks that lived through the time to get the real truth.
I'm all ears. The topic is fascinating to me.
Is it your opinion that Wallace would have said no to Bear in '65 had Bear made his desire to admit blacks publicly known?
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:40 pm to LC412000
I didn't take time to read the whole thread, but did somebody point out that Bama wasn't very good for a little stretch beginning at 1967? People were calling for his job.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:40 pm to DWag215
quote:
IIRC, Bear had the power to make that move in '63.
if you truly believe this, ive got a bridge to sell you
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:42 pm to crimsontater
I just meant the law required it. It was a poorly worded statement.
I have since made clear that I don't think he really possessed the power to make a strong push until maybe '65.
I'd love to hear whether Bama folks think Wallace would've denied his request to admit blacks in '65 had he made his desires public knowledge.
I have since made clear that I don't think he really possessed the power to make a strong push until maybe '65.
I'd love to hear whether Bama folks think Wallace would've denied his request to admit blacks in '65 had he made his desires public knowledge.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:42 pm to DWag215
quote:
DWag215
pssssttttt You seem very young. I will explain it. Bear was never the most powerful in the State of Alabama. Bear was the most revered. Wallace was never the most powerful in the State of Alabama, he was a figure head. I will let you figure out, at that time, who was the most powerful in the State of Alabama.
(it was the exact same way in Mississippi also)
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:44 pm to MrAUTigers
I think true reverence breeds power. In fact I don't see how the latter doesn't follow the former.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:52 pm to DWag215
quote:
DWag215
I think you're underestimating the influence that Wallace actually had. In 1968 he ran for president still preaching segregation and received 10 million votes.
Just 14 years later he ran for governor in Alabama and received nearly 100% of the black vote. He won the 10 majority black counties by a 2 to 1 margin.
He was the consummate stereotypical politician. He could sell anybody a line of bullshite that they would believe.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:55 pm to DWag215
Is it your opinion that Wallace would have said no to Bear in '65 had Bear made his desire to admit blacks publicly known?
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Firstly, you can count on one thing. Coach Bryant would have never gone public on this matter without talking to Gov. Wallace. What you're not grasping is that Bryant is/was an icon in the state, but Wallace ran the state...he called the shots, and that was the way is was. The 2 men were friends publicly, but their worlds weren't in the same solor system...so to speak.
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Firstly, you can count on one thing. Coach Bryant would have never gone public on this matter without talking to Gov. Wallace. What you're not grasping is that Bryant is/was an icon in the state, but Wallace ran the state...he called the shots, and that was the way is was. The 2 men were friends publicly, but their worlds weren't in the same solor system...so to speak.
Posted on 11/17/13 at 5:58 pm to Evolved Simian
Perhaps I am.
It's just hard to conceive a world where the governor of Alabama could oppose Nick Saban on some critical issue that affects the football team yet still be popular within the state.
By that time he had also publicly renounced racism and apologized to the black community.
It's not like he was campaigning on the same platform. But I get your point. That he was even able to garner a substantial portion of black votes despite his history is pretty telling.
It's just hard to conceive a world where the governor of Alabama could oppose Nick Saban on some critical issue that affects the football team yet still be popular within the state.
quote:
Just 14 years later he ran for governor in Alabama and received nearly 100% of the black vote. He won the 10 majority black counties by a 2 to 1 margin.
By that time he had also publicly renounced racism and apologized to the black community.
It's not like he was campaigning on the same platform. But I get your point. That he was even able to garner a substantial portion of black votes despite his history is pretty telling.
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