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re: What prevents Vanderbilt from competing in Football using Stanford's model?
Posted on 12/10/15 at 8:46 am to Grovewater
Posted on 12/10/15 at 8:46 am to Grovewater
Luck, happenstance, and the SEC. If Vanderbilt had lucked in to Harbaugh when Stanford did, they would have found some success. However, in the SEC, it wouldn't have been as dramatic, and it would be harder to sustain.
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Posted on 12/10/15 at 8:49 am to Grovewater
quote:
Stanford has made itself into a consistent contender in Football by recruiting athletically gifted valedictorians from ar
Stanford's marketing dept has done a wonderful job convincing people that they don't have any different standards for their athletes than their regular students.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 8:52 am to TNTiger1984
quote:
I agree with your post but competing in the SEC versus the PAC is a killer for Vanderbilt.
I couldn't disagree with you more. The SEC East would get raped in the Pac 12. Playing in the SEC East (and permanent Western opponent Ole Miss) has only benefited Vanderbilt.
This post was edited on 12/10/15 at 8:55 am
Posted on 12/10/15 at 8:56 am to Grovewater
Facilities, Weather, Location, History, Tradition, pretty much everything.
Not to mention, what percentage of the African American majority football players are stoked about the Country Music capitol of the world.
Plenty of other "unsmart" schools around Palo Alto with attractive girls as well.
What Franklin did at Vandy is incredible...9 wins.
Not to mention, what percentage of the African American majority football players are stoked about the Country Music capitol of the world.
Plenty of other "unsmart" schools around Palo Alto with attractive girls as well.
What Franklin did at Vandy is incredible...9 wins.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 8:56 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
Stanford does not play an SEC schedule.
Seriously, Stanford avoids playing pretty much any and all SEC schools. Seems like Stanford has played SEC teams like a dozen times in their football history and most of those were with Tulane when they were in the SEC. Mason came from Stanford and look at how he has done paling an SEC schedule.
You're talking out of your arse.
Stanford's annual game with Notre Dame puts it on par with any OOC played by the one or two teams like Alabama and LSU that actually schedule top OOC opponents.
I'm not sure you are correct that Stanford has avoided the SEC. My understanding is that they have tried to schedule games, given their success with recruiting football players from the south.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:00 am to Grovewater
The obvious factors are terrible tradition and fan support.
The main factor is the University is not committed to football. You need to have that first to change the culture.
The main factor is the University is not committed to football. You need to have that first to change the culture.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:02 am to nc14
quote:
More smart athletes in California than in Tennessee.
Pretty much sums it up. Not a knock on the South, but west coast high schools tend to put more emphasis on grades than sports. Most of their athletes are literate and schools make sure they make the grades unlike schools in the south.
In places such as Mississippi and Alabama it's the exact opposite. Damn the child's reading ability, give his butt a C minus and get him on the field. It's the reason some former and even current Ole Miss athletes can barely read/write. Jerell Powe comes to mind as a prime example of how Southern education has failed us.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:03 am to Grovewater
There is a limited amount of 4 & 5 star kids who are smart enough to go to a Stanford, Vandy, Duke, or Northwestern. As a Vandy fan, they'd be a fool to not go to Stanford if offered. Also, although Vandy fans on average have a higher income than their SEC brethren, I'd say that we lack in the number of people that have the money needed to donate $10M+ to get our program competitive. To make those kind of commitments, you either need some serious family money (not just your local wealthy family) or to be the founder of your own highly successful business. The latter either tend to go to Ivy League schools due to their genius, or are randomly dispersed throughout the other schools, so it's almost a lottery by numbers. Vandy only has 7k undergrad - half the size of the next smallest school in the SEC (Ole Miss).
TL;DR limited talent, limited resources, and when you do have those things, they have higher priorities than Vandy football.
TL;DR limited talent, limited resources, and when you do have those things, they have higher priorities than Vandy football.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:03 am to Monticello
quote:
Vandy is a more regional university with clout in the southeast but not much elsewhere.
I agree with everything you said but this. Vandy has an absurd number of northeasterners and foreigners. Its half kids that didn't get into Ivy league. It doesn't feel "Southern" at all.
ETA:
Although I do agree that Stanford is more appealing in just about every way.
Vandy is a damn good school and has clout all over the world though.
This post was edited on 12/10/15 at 9:06 am
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:03 am to oman
quote:
Stanford's annual game with Notre Dame puts it on par with any OOC played by the one or two teams like Alabama and LSU that actually schedule top OOC opponents.
That's absolutely true.
Stanford doesn't have to play ND, but they do anyway.
Stanford's schedule was much tougher than the majority of SEC schedules this year.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:04 am to Monticello
quote:
Vandy is a more regional university with clout in the southeast but not much elsewhere.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Vandy has a ton of students from New York and California. The Midwest has a bunch of students that go there as well. It's a very diverse university state-wise from all of the people I've met who go there.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:06 am to Grovewater
why does Stanford suck in basketball? Stanford really has no competition in the west for academic qualified football players. They probably could pluck enough players from California to field a good team but stanford can go national. Vanderbilt has to compete with the good academic ACC school's in a smaller pool and its more difficult to recruit national for them.
This post was edited on 12/10/15 at 9:17 am
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:08 am to KiwiHead
I went to Stanford, and I think the key point, already mentioned are:
1) the history. No, it's not a national championship history, but the quarterback history (and Bill Walsh) have given it a mystique that has stuck.
2) Yeah, the athletes can meet a lower standard, but it is still a high standard, and their focus since Harbaugh on the o-line, tight ends and quarterbacks means they are always seeking guys who are generally speaking, the smartest guys on any team. Goofy guys like Luck enhance the reputation. So for every not so sharp guy their are three or four really impressive guys on the team.
3) The weather there is damn perfect. "Yeah, there is nobody in the stands but how about this weather?"
4) The silicon valley/entrepreneur vibe at Stanford is what gives its diploma the status boost. Other schools have equally strong students, but Stanford has held on to flavor of the month for 20 years. It wins the parent battles when those are tiebreakers.
1) the history. No, it's not a national championship history, but the quarterback history (and Bill Walsh) have given it a mystique that has stuck.
2) Yeah, the athletes can meet a lower standard, but it is still a high standard, and their focus since Harbaugh on the o-line, tight ends and quarterbacks means they are always seeking guys who are generally speaking, the smartest guys on any team. Goofy guys like Luck enhance the reputation. So for every not so sharp guy their are three or four really impressive guys on the team.
3) The weather there is damn perfect. "Yeah, there is nobody in the stands but how about this weather?"
4) The silicon valley/entrepreneur vibe at Stanford is what gives its diploma the status boost. Other schools have equally strong students, but Stanford has held on to flavor of the month for 20 years. It wins the parent battles when those are tiebreakers.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:09 am to greenbastard
Vandy was on their way under Franklin.
2011 - 7-6
2012 - 9-4
2013 - 9-4
Won back-to-back bowl games. Went to 3 bowls in a row.
The way the east was last year there's a good chance they would have gone at least 4-4 if not 5-3. This year, they're probably an 8 win team under Franklin or 7 at worst. If that's the case then they're to their fifth bowl game in as many years.
In just the three years he was at Vandy they drastically changed the football culture. And it fell apart when Mason got there.
2011 - 7-6
2012 - 9-4
2013 - 9-4
Won back-to-back bowl games. Went to 3 bowls in a row.
The way the east was last year there's a good chance they would have gone at least 4-4 if not 5-3. This year, they're probably an 8 win team under Franklin or 7 at worst. If that's the case then they're to their fifth bowl game in as many years.
In just the three years he was at Vandy they drastically changed the football culture. And it fell apart when Mason got there.
This post was edited on 12/10/15 at 9:10 am
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:12 am to Grovewater
Northern California > Tennessee
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:12 am to Billy Mays
I'd like to see Vanderbilt take a different offensive approach. I'd like to see them adopt a Baylor, Texas Tech, or TCU spread offense approach. Derek Mason had them playing pretty good defense. However, the offense made LSU's look cutting-edge. With some uncertainty with the SEC East (new coaches at Georgia, Mizzou, and South Carolina), now would be the time to capture the opportunity.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:12 am to greenbastard
Oh don't pat yourself on the back so quick, Texas is full of dumbasses - more than Alabama and Mississippi combined and that's being conservative. My remark about Tennessee was not intended as a put down, just a fact that those two institutions have extremely tough admittance requirements and only small % meet those reqs - 10% of Cali is substantially bigger pool than it is in Tennessee.
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:15 am to atlau
quote:
Vandy was on their way under Franklin.
Consummate politician and excellent recruiter. Average in-game coach who hired Bob Shoop who was a solid DC.
Now they have a great defensive minded head coach, but a very average recruiter.
They need 2 things:
- Get a competent offense going
and
- They need to open up their pocketbooks and pay some of these mercenary recruiters to come be full time talent gatherers.
Like an Ed Orgeron (example, you keep your hands off of him).
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:15 am to oman
Ultimately, sometimes the stars just allign and things work out. If Vandy had hired Harbaugh, the story might be different. But Harbaugh happened to go to high school in Palo Alto. There were connections.
If Mason had followed Harbaugh to Vandy, and then stayed there when Harbaugh left, he might have been able to retain what Shaw did at Vandy.
People may still underestimate Shaw.
A black guy who played football at Stanford, whose father was a coach at Stanford, who is smart, and low key, is going to impress recruits.
The back story on Willie Shaw is pretty interesting -- he was about to become the head coach at Stanford when at the last minute Walsh decided to come back. There was a lot of emotion to the story when David Shaw was hired, and that dude has a deep deep passion for the school which may not be evident on tv.
This set of photos is pretty cool:
If Mason had followed Harbaugh to Vandy, and then stayed there when Harbaugh left, he might have been able to retain what Shaw did at Vandy.
People may still underestimate Shaw.
A black guy who played football at Stanford, whose father was a coach at Stanford, who is smart, and low key, is going to impress recruits.
The back story on Willie Shaw is pretty interesting -- he was about to become the head coach at Stanford when at the last minute Walsh decided to come back. There was a lot of emotion to the story when David Shaw was hired, and that dude has a deep deep passion for the school which may not be evident on tv.
This set of photos is pretty cool:
Posted on 12/10/15 at 9:16 am to oman
quote:
Goofy guys like
Elway
Plunkett
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