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re: Ranking the Trenches (Offensive + Defensive Line)

Posted on 4/1/16 at 3:36 pm to
Posted by scrooster
Resident Ethicist
Member since Jul 2012
37733 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 3:36 pm to
quote:

The lines (along with QB) are the hardest places for true freshmen to contribute


I never stated that I was talking about "true freshmen."

I was talking about, and thought I clearly stated, new signed talent, (as in JuCos) along with some "redshirted," talented and highly recruited freshmen ... kids who were highly touted as freshmen, last year, but are now redshirted freshmen moving up.

Kobe Smith, already enrolled, at DT. Dexter Wideman, already enrolled, a redshirted freshman at DT ... was recruited and offered by almost everyone and there would have been more had he not committed to FSU so early. Reshirted junior DT, former JuCo transfer Ulric Jones. Those are the three new blood DTs already on campus, already practicing, two of them were redshirted last year. That's not counting the ones coming in this summer like high 4* DT 6-4 295 Stephen Taylor outta NOLA or ...

Keir Thomas DE ... already on campus, enrolled early, DE out of Miami - was offered by a lot of other programs including Tennessee, Arkansas and Auburn. That's not counting the new kids who are likely to get some early playing time like Sadrius Hutcherson or Darius Whitfield or maybe even Griffin Gentry.

And I do not know of a single Gamecock fan or pundit that I have talked to that does not believe our OLine will be greatly improved with the talent we have returning this year ... only two RFR, all the rest are sophs or above with a lot of playing time. Very talented sophs btw, three of them, who took their licks playing as true freshmen last year and improved greatly as the season progressed. Just on returnees alone, we'll average around 6-5 315 and they are all capable OLinemen, the ones that have survived the culling. Why do you think, of all coaches that he retained, he only retained one ... Shawn Elliot ... our OLine coach. Oh, and not talking about the new signees straight outta HS along the OLine, because I expect none of them to contribute this year ... but I do expect JuCo transfer OLineman Akeem Cooperwood to contribute.

I'm not trying to argue with you George ... I'm just sayin', having us 14/14 on both sides of the line is just ridiculous.

Last year was an abomination ... the last gasp of a floundering staff and HC. It is what it is, but it will have very little influence on this coming season.

I'm far far more worried about our secondary, our WRs, our RBs and our QB than I am our offensive and defensive line. Even Boom himself has said that he feels like we're going to be pretty good in the trenches - he's got talent to work with there.

And we may yet add more to our DEs enrolling for this year - it's not over yet in all likelihood.
This post was edited on 4/1/16 at 3:38 pm
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 3:36 pm to
quote:

Oh i'm not saying we should be higher than 12th in either category until proof shows up on the field. Merely providing information as to why dead last may be equally unlikely.





I fully anticipate Muschamp to get as much out of your defensive front as they have in their bodies.
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 3:38 pm to
quote:

I'm just sayin', having us 14/14 on both sides of the line is just ridiculous.


It sounds like your OL may be pretty decent, so I agree, they should probably be somewhere around 10 or so.

The league is stacked on the defensive line. Bad teams like Vanderbilt and Missouri have really solid defensive lines. I can't see any way your d-line is ranked ahead of anybody but Kentucky and maybe even with Vanderbilt. Can you? Am I wrong?
This post was edited on 4/1/16 at 3:40 pm
Posted by scrooster
Resident Ethicist
Member since Jul 2012
37733 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 3:38 pm to
quote:

I'll help rooster out with some justifications.

On OL, you're right that we lost 3 starters. however we are replacing them with a transfer from Wake who had to sit out last season and was a freshman all american and 2 sophomores who were 4*s out of HS and in the top 15 of their position in the class.

On DL, I agree that the scheme as a whole will help with the run. That coupled with actual fundamentals like tackling which apparently was only taught to Skai Moore last season. The real issue that we have on DL is depth. Our 2 DTs and main DE are solid but the guys subbing in will not be on the same level.


Thank you
Posted by mizslu314
Dirty STL
Member since Sep 2013
15977 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 3:41 pm to
Mizzou has the 3rd best Dline, and depending on how Brantly does after his car accident it could possibly be top 2
Posted by GameCocky88
Mount Pleasant, SC
Member since Dec 2015
4837 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

I can't see any way your d-line is ranked ahead of anybody but Kentucky and maybe even with Vanderbilt. Can you? Am I wrong?


Hard to do really. Like I said above, our starters are solid, but there is a cliff of a drop off after that. As a whole, I'd really just be nitpicking with extreme homerism. Definitely excited about the direction of our DL, its mainly the secondary that has me worried at this point.
Posted by ForeverLSU02
Albany
Member since Jun 2007
52157 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 3:42 pm to
No way our DL is 7. 5 at the least
Posted by Gary Busey
Member since Dec 2014
33277 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 3:43 pm to
quote:

They do college now, correct?

I don't have an account but I follow them on Twitter. They post good free material every now and then. Solid source for player rankings, IMO. The best.


Not consistently, but they are great to read for draft analysis. I've been stuck on it for a while now.
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 3:45 pm to
quote:

No way our DL is 7. 5 at the least


Who would you put them ahead of? I could see arguments they are ahead of Ole Miss.

I don't think they are as good as Alabama, Tennessee or Auburn. Probably somewhere around the same as Ole Miss and Missouri.
Posted by scrooster
Resident Ethicist
Member since Jul 2012
37733 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 3:47 pm to
quote:

I can't see any way your d-line is ranked ahead of anybody but Kentucky and maybe even with Vanderbilt. Can you? Am I wrong?


I dunno ... I'd have to take a long hard look at it, what everyone else has returning, who the new coaches are around the league at that position ... then maybe take a WAG at it.

I know I like having Lance Romance Thompson coaching the DLine ... he seems to be good at what he does. From what I've seen so far he reminds me a ton of Brad Lawing, except maybe he's a better coach while not quite the relationship guy Lawing was with the players.

We've got Ellis Johnson back ... different role, but his insight will contribute to the cause along the DLine.

We've got talent on the DLine ... if they come in more mature, in better shape, with a new attitude, who knows ... but I do believe they will be greatly, greatly, improved from last year. Last year was an abomination. It was a freaky year for us - and the laws of averages along with the coaching change, not to mention Boom running up and down the line in practices motivating the helloutta them ... we're going to be much more physical and aggressive along the DLine this year than we were last year. And with our returning linebackers, who should be one of the better groups in the conference ... they are going to allow us to do some different things along the DLine this year that our DLine coaches last year were too timid and pussified to attempt.
Posted by Hawgeye
tFlagship Brothel
Member since Jun 2009
31085 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 3:52 pm to
quote:

7. Arkansas (3, 9)


9th? You're kidding I hope.

Arkansas returns 9/10 on a two deep up front that was 12th in the nation against the run last season and 2nd in the league.

Come on, you're better than that.
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

9th? You're kidding I hope. Arkansas returns 9/10 on a two deep up front that was 12th in the nation against the run last season and 2nd in the league.


Again, who would you put them ahead of.

Alabama? Tennessee? Auburn? Florida? Ole Miss? Missouri? LSU?

Also - Arkansas was 5th in YPA Rush Defense (3.76).
This post was edited on 4/1/16 at 3:56 pm
Posted by Hawgeye
tFlagship Brothel
Member since Jun 2009
31085 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 4:01 pm to
quote:

Again, who would you put them ahead of.


Well, for starters, everyone they finished ahead of last season considering they return 9 out of 10 guys on the two deep. Arkansas, like Alabama, rotates many bodies in and out during the course of a game.

Now you consider Arkansas also landed one of the biggest freaks in this years class that will also play on the Defensive Line.

quote:

Alabama? Tennessee? Auburn? Florida? Ole Miss? Missouri? LSU?

No, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes.

quote:

Also - Arkansas was 5th in YPA Rush Defense (3.76).

Yet only gave up just over 110 yards per game. Good for 12th in the nation and 2nd in the league. Better than Tennessee, Auburn, Florida, Ole Miss, Missouri, and LSU.

What do those teams return? Ole Miss lost key components on their Dline. Tennessee gave up 151 yards on the ground per game last season. Auburn gave up 183 yards per game(holy shite).


This post was edited on 4/1/16 at 4:05 pm
Posted by PurpleandGeauld
Florence, TX
Member since Oct 2013
5183 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 4:02 pm to
quote:

Last year was an abomination


That may well be accurate, but were you actually meaning aberration? =)
Posted by PurpleandGeauld
Florence, TX
Member since Oct 2013
5183 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 4:07 pm to
For LSU's DLine rating, I think it is harder to judge using last years numbers than it would be normally, Aranda being the reason. Everywhere he has been, the statistical difference in his first year has been a significant positive jump in all categories. Hoping that trend continues =)
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 4:10 pm to
quote:

Well, for starters, everyone they finished ahead of last season considering they return 9 out of 10 guys on the two deep. Arkansas, like Alabama, rotates many bodies in and out during the course of a game.


Arkansas finished 5th in YPA Rush Defense and 12th in Sacks.

quote:

Now you consider Arkansas also landed one of the biggest freaks in this years class that will also play on the Defensive Line.


Welcome to the SEC. We all signed freaks on the DL. That doesn't matter.

quote:

Yet only gave up just over 110 yards per game.


On the least attempts per game (tied with Alabama)

Alabama gave up 2.43 YPA. Arkansas gave up 3.76 YPA.

quote:

What do those teams return? Ole Miss lost key components on their Dline. Tennessee gave up 151 yards on the ground per game last season. Auburn gave up 183 yards per game(holy shite).


Tennessee was much better the 2nd half of the year and also was 5th in the league in sacks per game (Arkansas was 12th). Auburn gets Lawson back, a sophomore Cowart and everyone else.


quote:

Alabama? Tennessee? Auburn? Florida? Ole Miss? Missouri? LSU?


Team - YPA Rush Rank & Sack Per Game Rank
Alabama - 1st and 1st
Florida - 4th and 2nd
LSU - 6th and 3rd
Texas A&M - 13th and 4th
Tennessee - 9th and 5th
Arkansas - 5th and 12th
Auburn - 11th and 13th
Missouri - 2nd and 7th

Posted by scrooster
Resident Ethicist
Member since Jul 2012
37733 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 4:14 pm to
quote:

That may well be accurate, but were you actually meaning aberration? =)


No ... it wasn't an aberration. It was what it was - we sucked. Maybe an aberration insomuch as we are normally pretty good along the DLine, historically, but I don't count on history so much as I do what they actually accomplish from year to year based upon having a solid approach and a steady, capable coach on the line coaching them up. Brad Lawing was that and he was for many years. Deke Adams was a departure from that ... he was not a good DLine coach.

I used "abomination" because they disgusted me last year. They half-assed it, they showed no energy or enthusiasm, they were poorly coached, they were piss poor tacklers ... they were an abomination. Some of them did not deserve the scholarships they were awarded. Others were cancer to the team - bad attitudes, bad work ethics. They put a putrid product on the field and now, thankfully, many of them are gone and those remaining are left on notice that the bullshite they put us through last year is not going to be tolerated. You can lose, but you'd better go down swinging, you'd better show some effort, you'd better be fearless and you'd better be prepared.

And it wasn't like they couldn't have done it all season ... their best game last year was their last game. The one they decided to get-up for and put forth some effort ... the Clemson game. That made what they did the rest of the season all the more disgusting in my eyes - because they had the ability and the talent but they coasted through the whole season for whatever reasons ... none of which were acceptable IMHO.

Last season was an abomination.
Posted by Hawgeye
tFlagship Brothel
Member since Jun 2009
31085 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 4:26 pm to
quote:

Arkansas finished 5th in YPA Rush Defense and 12th in Sacks.


In SEC play Arkansas ranked 4th in ypa.
In SEC play Arkansas was 8th, 1 sack behind Tennessee and Ole Miss and ahead of Auburn, aTm, and Georgia.

quote:

Welcome to the SEC. We all signed freaks on the DL. That doesn't matter.


Of course it matters. We lost 9/10 on the rotation and the 5* kid will be inserted for 10 complete rotation again this year.

quote:

On the least attempts per game (tied with Alabama)

Alabama gave up 2.43 YPA. Arkansas gave up 3.76 YPA.


Arkansas was tied with LSU in attempts in SEC play last season. LSU gave up more yards per game and more yards per attempt.

quote:

Tennessee was much better the 2nd half of the year and also was 5th in the league in sacks per game (Arkansas was 12th). Auburn gets Lawson back, a sophomore Cowart and everyone else.


Again, Tennessee gave up 160 rushing yards per game in SEC play and 4.5 yards per carry. If they did get better, then their numbers were super shitty. Tennessee had 18 sacks in league play last season. Arkansas had 17.

It doesn't matter who Auburn returns. Their rushing defense numbers were terrible a season ago. They gave up 196.5 yards per game in SEC play and nearly 5(4.9) ypc a season ago.

Posted by Hawgeye
tFlagship Brothel
Member since Jun 2009
31085 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 4:41 pm to
Rushing Defense In SEC Play

1. Alabama 727 yards 2.8 ypc 90.9 ypg
2. Arkansas 986 yards 3.6 ypc 123.2 ypg
3. Florida 1000 yards 3.5 ypc 125 ypg
4. Ole Miss 1105 yards 3.7 ypc 138.1 ypg
5. LSU 1122 yards 4.1 ypc 140.2 ypg
6. Missouri 1232 yards 3.5 ypc 154 ypg
7. Georgia 1246 yards 4.1 ypc 155.8 ypg
8. Tennessee 1273 yards 4.5 ypc 159.1 ypg
9. Vanderbilt 1463 yards 4.9 ypc 182.9 ypg
10. Kentucky 1466 yards 4.5 ypc 183.2 ypc
11. Auburn 1572 yards 4.9 ypc 196.5 ypg
12. State 1590 yards 5.0 ypc 198.8 ypg
13. South Carolina 1789 yards 5.2 ypc 223.6 ypg
14. Texas A&M 1849 yards 5.3 ypc 231.1 ypg

Posted by Hawgeye
tFlagship Brothel
Member since Jun 2009
31085 posts
Posted on 4/1/16 at 4:47 pm to
quote:

Tennessee was much better the 2nd half of the year


Northwestern: 132 rushing yards
Vanderbilt: 202 rushing yards
South Carolina: 152 yards rushing
Kentucky: 165 yards rushing


Thats the last half of Tennessee's second half schedule outside of Missouri and North Texas.

Yea, they really got a lot better.

Look, at least try to seem somewhat competent in knowing things if you are going to try and defend a list of yours.
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