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re: Program Killing Games In SEC History?
Posted on 9/21/16 at 3:50 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
Posted on 9/21/16 at 3:50 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
At LSU I've seen games kill coaches, but not really the program.
Well that is what I was saying in the OP- no one game kills a program forever. But I think that each and every successful coach builds up a program in their own way, and you can have games that kills that coach's program (ie the momentum and the winner's attitude).
The only game I can think of that actually maybe be said to have killed a program was when SMU beat Texas in 1984. That win got the Texas press to come down hard on SMU, and got the NCAA (ran by a Texas guy at the time) to throw the book at SMU in a punishment we now all call the "death penalty."
But even then, SMU still plays football today they just suck way more. So really there is no one game that ever kills a program. There are "program killing games" when the world learns your program isn't what everyone thinks it is.
Half of college football success is perception.
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Posted on 9/21/16 at 3:55 pm to TheGators
quote:
Hiring Will Muschamp killed Will Muschamp's Florida.
Yeah sometimes there isn't one thing to point to. And when its a gradual decline it's hard to tell if the program is dead or not. Someone in the Spring of 2010 would have said the loss to Florida killed Bowden's FSU, when we all know that it was a lull season not a death knell. In fact in most cases programs gradually decline into nothingness (like Oregon is doing this year).
The exception to the rule is the game when such and such team becomes completely exposed. Sometimes right then and there you know that is the end of something (like I knew the night Temple beat Vandy), while in some cases it takes retrospective to realize what happened (aka years from now we might say Louisville killed FSU's current program).
Posted on 9/21/16 at 3:57 pm to dan765
quote:
Ok, how about UGA vs UT 2015. I think that was the beginning of the end for Richt.
Alabama the week before was the beginning of the end for him, but it's too early to tell if that was a program killing loss. Georgia could recover from last season just fine.
When I think of program killing losses, two truly come to mind:
1. 2007 Hawaii gets dose of reality in Sugar Bowl. June Jones left after that, they hired Norm Chow, and the rest is history. They've been dreadful since that game.
2. 2007 WVU blows a national title shot with a home loss to 4-7 Pitt. This was the ultimate program killer. RichRod had a good thing going there, and that team would have absolutely cornholed Ohio State in the national title game. If WVU beats Pitt, RichRod doesn't take the Michigan job while he's preparing for a national title. With LSU not in the title mix, Les Miles probably would have left for Michigan. The domino effect from that game was staggering, and WVU has never been remotely close to reaching that level since and probably won't in the near future. Also, their 2008 team would have been a NC contender with RichRod still there.
I can't ever remember one loss killing an SEC team like those losses killed Hawaii and WVU.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 4:12 pm to VADawg
quote:
2007 Hawaii gets dose of reality in Sugar Bowl.
Amazing example. Maybe the best one yet actually. Thank you.
quote:
2007 WVU blows a national title shot with a home loss to 4-7 Pitt. This was the ultimate program killer. RichRod had a good thing going there, and that team would have absolutely cornholed Ohio State in the national title game. If WVU beats Pitt, RichRod doesn't take the Michigan job while he's preparing for a national title. With LSU not in the title mix, Les Miles probably would have left for Michigan. The domino effect from that game was staggering, and WVU has never been remotely close to reaching that level since and probably won't in the near future. Also, their 2008 team would have been a NC contender with RichRod still there.
Hmmm...that one is a little complicated. When you have a chain of events like that it is hard to say that this one thing would have turned out that way. Rich Rod obviously wanted to move to a better job no matter what, so he still could have jumped that year (maybe to LSU to fill Les's vacant spot). Still you have a good point and I like it.
I think the USC loss to the Citadel is also like that. If it really is how they say it is- that loss ran off a locked in Tom Herman- than that is the worst loss ever in the history of the SEC. That loss took USC from following up their best coach ever with the best up-and-comer coach we have seen in over a decade (since Meyer at Utah really) if they are correct. That is the kind of soul crushing loss that basically set the USC program back decades and maybe undid any chance it had to ever take back the state from Clemson, but honestly I don't believe the story.
No scratch that. I don't believe that USC fans believe the story. If they really think their AD lost the best coaching hire in a decade because his salesmanship couldn't overcome a single loss to a single team they would want to hang the guy. But they all seem melancholy about it which tells me Herman was never coming and they invented the whole story to feel better about themselves and make him look petty.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 4:24 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
Half of college football success is 90% mental.
Fixed that for you.
...No charge.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 4:26 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
Petrino's "game" killed our program for awhile 
Posted on 9/21/16 at 4:29 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Fixed that for you.
...No charge.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 4:29 pm to dbeck
quote:
Petrino's "game" killed our program for awhile
Yeah that and Mike's Destiny right?
Posted on 9/21/16 at 4:45 pm to GIbson05
quote:
Before 21-0 people debated for months who was the better coach Miles or Saban... Think about that..
21-0 was the turning point that Alabama and Saban were clear cut #1, and since than LSU hasn't been close to a NC and fans want him fired just because he's not having Saban like success.
21-0 broke the LSU program.
BOOM!
Posted on 9/21/16 at 5:02 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
I think the USC loss to the Citadel is also like that. If it really is how they say it is- that loss ran off a locked in Tom Herman- than that is the worst loss ever in the history of the SEC. That loss took USC from following up their best coach ever with the best up-and-comer coach we have seen in over a decade (since Meyer at Utah really) if they are correct. That is the kind of soul crushing loss that basically set the USC program back decades and maybe undid any chance it had to ever take back the state from Clemson, but honestly I don't believe the story.
No scratch that. I don't believe that USC fans believe the story. If they really think their AD lost the best coaching hire in a decade because his salesmanship couldn't overcome a single loss to a single team they would want to hang the guy. But they all seem melancholy about it which tells me Herman was never coming and they invented the whole story to feel better about themselves and make him look petty.
still slinging shite at a wall to see what sticks I see. that's a lot of words for someone who really doesn't give a shite. lots of words.
you are following Dabo's brilliant "it's only unthinkable if you don't think it" wisdom with this fiction. please continue because it's damn hilarious and quite flattering coming from you.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 5:12 pm to OldPete
quote:
In the '93 Sugar Bowl, Bama blew up the aura of invincibility surrounding Miami. In the 10 years prior to that game, Miami never went unranked, and had 7 top 3 finishes, including 4 national championships. The 7 years after that game, Miami only finished once in the top 10 (#6)
LOL....don't flatter yourself Bammers. Miami finished top 15 the next season ('93) with their only losses to #1 FSU, #6 WVU and #9 Arizona. They finished #6 in '94 and probably would have won another NC if they had beaten Nebraska in the Orange Bowl. THEN they got hit with sanctions in '95 that cost them 31 scholarships from '96-'98.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 5:36 pm to lsufball19
quote:
Miami had been slowly bleeding ever since the 2002 season. But yes, that Peach Bowl was likely the final nail in their coffin. And I honestly do not believe Miami will ever be "Miami" again
2005 Miami game is the perfect answer to the OP.
They have done nothing since that game.
It changed the program.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 5:51 pm to LSU82BILL
quote:
LOL....don't flatter yourself Bammers.
Not flattering Bama...Miami (and the media) was talkin' best dynasty ever when, not if, they won that game. Nobody was picking Bama; all the talking heads and experts in the media were predicting an easy double digit win for Miami. For a team that was coming off 7 top 3 finishes in 10 years, do you think they were happy with a 3-loss top 15 finish the following year? How many top 3 finishes have they had since? Miami lost their swagger, at least for a few years, after that game...
And no, if they'd beaten Nebraska two years later, there's no way they jump an undefeated Penn State for #1...this was in the years of the BCA, not the BCS...Penn State was loaded in '94 and got a lot of first place votes as it was...
Posted on 9/21/16 at 5:51 pm to 1801
quote:
still slinging shite at a wall to see what sticks I see. that's a lot of words for someone who really doesn't give a shite. lots of words
It is just my theory. If you have better information let us know. If the old Rooster said "it ain't that way" I would believe it.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 5:54 pm to CBandits82
quote:
2005 Miami game is the perfect answer to the OP.
They were in the Peach Bowl back before it was a big time bowl game. They had already slipped a few notches. IMO, their slide started when they lost at unranked UNC (I believe in 2004). Whatever aura of invincibility was left from the Butch Davis recruiting classes went away that night. They also lost at home to unranked GT in 2005 that knocked them out of the national title race.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 6:00 pm to VADawg
You can make a very compelling argument that Nick Saban broke texas.
Since "Colt got hurt", they've gone 43-36, had 3 losing seasons, gone 2-2 in bowls, have not won or shared a single conference title, are on their third athletic director, second football coach, and second university president.
Before "Colt got hurt", they had 26 losses between 1998-2009. They have 36 since.
Since "Colt got hurt", they've gone 43-36, had 3 losing seasons, gone 2-2 in bowls, have not won or shared a single conference title, are on their third athletic director, second football coach, and second university president.
Before "Colt got hurt", they had 26 losses between 1998-2009. They have 36 since.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 6:13 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
-I think our 2014 win vs USC basically killed Spurrier's program. Or maybe it is we knocked it to the ground and the Citadel delivered the final blow. I think if the whole "we had Herman until the Citadel" is true that is the worst program loss I have ever heard of.
Oh sheeeesh ... you're a frickin idiot.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 6:17 pm to cardboardboxer
LSU beat SC last year and Spurrier resigned the next week. I bet there are few people here that can tell me the Spurrier/LSU/UF connection and why it's so personal. As for Muschamp, he is toxic. SC will have to find out the hard way.
On the 21-0 argument that always comes up, it's the coaching staff that seems damaged. Like a blow to the ego. But we still have not had a losing, non-bowl season since the Dinardo era.
On the 21-0 argument that always comes up, it's the coaching staff that seems damaged. Like a blow to the ego. But we still have not had a losing, non-bowl season since the Dinardo era.
Posted on 9/21/16 at 6:19 pm to cardboardboxer
We nailed the coffin for Miami and Tennessee...
Posted on 9/21/16 at 6:20 pm to scrooster
quote:
Oh sheeeesh ... you're a frickin idiot.
Contribute then instead of calling me names. If you (especially you) set the story straight I will believe it.
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