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re: Pat Dye wants to cancel the Iron Bowl
Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:15 am to Huddie Leadbetter
Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:15 am to Huddie Leadbetter
quote:
It's interesting to note that Auburn's best runs in my lifetime were when Pat Dye coached there, before he was forced out for cheating and the resulting ncaa probation, and the Tubberville years, when Alabama was recovering (with Shula) from its own ncaa probation precipitated by Auburn paying Gene Jelks to lie (he admitted so later) to the ncaa about being paid at Alabama. You will note I didn't say that Alabama was busted because of the Gene Jelks lies, but the investigation was precipitated by that. UA was initially busted because Antonio Langham signed a napkin for an agent in the celebratory aftermath of the national championship game vs Miami. Granted, if Gene Stallings hadn't cursed and kicked the ncaa investigator out of his office, it wouldn't have been a major deal. In any event, it led in a meandering and circuitous way to one St. Nick Saban, so alls well that ends well. Still, on a level playing field, Auburn has never, in my lifetime, been able to competitively rival Alabama.
I love the way some Bammers want to rewrite history. Blaming Gene Jelks for Bama's NCAA issues.
Then trying to make out that poor Bama was a victim by the NCAA. They conveniently want you to forget about Albert Means and the fact that Logan Young had been buying recruits for years. The level playing field you want to talk about was with the Logan Youngs and other boosters that kept the Program going.
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Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:18 am to Huddie Leadbetter
quote:
It's interesting to note that Auburn's best runs in my lifetime were when Pat Dye coached there, before he was forced out for cheating and the resulting ncaa probation, and the Tubberville years, when Alabama was recovering (with Shula) from its own ncaa probation precipitated by Auburn paying Gene Jelks to lie (he admitted so later) to the ncaa about being paid at Alabama. You will note I didn't say that Alabama was busted because of the Gene Jelks lies, but the investigation was precipitated by that. UA was initially busted because Antonio Langham signed a napkin for an agent in the celebratory aftermath of the national championship game vs Miami. Granted, if Gene Stallings hadn't cursed and kicked the ncaa investigator out of his office, it wouldn't have been a major deal. In any event, it led in a meandering and circuitous way to one St. Nick Saban, so alls well that ends well. Still, on a level playing field, Auburn has never, in my lifetime, been able to competitively rival Alabama.
As a bama fan I am surprised you'd suggest Tubbs run is better than the current state of AU football. Tubbs had 1 SEC title. It's about trophies not rivalry wins.
That being said Auburn really isn't much different today than it has been historically. In the 80's we had one team robbed of a national title, it happened again in 2004. The system changed in our favor when it became "less" of a beauty contest and we got 2010 and came up short in 2013. In the 80's we had a couple of other teams come up short and one other one in the 2000's. I believe historically we are about an 8 win team with our schedule. Which would be 9.5 wins if we had bama's historical schedule. I understand why we chose to play Florida and UT and bama chose MSU. We needed to beat those teams to have a chance to get a prom date and bama didn't need anyone to get asked to the prom by the media.
This post was edited on 5/24/17 at 11:22 am
Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:19 am to Irons Puppet
What part of "precipitated by" do you not understand? Or maybe you just don't know the meaning of the word. Yes, no, maybe?
Every programs has its Logan Young, but Auburn stands alone, at number 3 in the nation, as the SEC team most busted for ncaa trouble.
The point, which you avoided, is that Auburn has never competitively rivaled Alabama in our lifetimes except when Dye was there, before he was busted for cheating, and when Alabama was recovering from ncaa probation after Auburn boosters paid Jelks to lie to the ncaa.
Every programs has its Logan Young, but Auburn stands alone, at number 3 in the nation, as the SEC team most busted for ncaa trouble.
The point, which you avoided, is that Auburn has never competitively rivaled Alabama in our lifetimes except when Dye was there, before he was busted for cheating, and when Alabama was recovering from ncaa probation after Auburn boosters paid Jelks to lie to the ncaa.
Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:24 am to Huddie Leadbetter
quote:
Every programs has its Logan Young, but Auburn stands alone, at number 3 in the nation, as the SEC team most busted for ncaa trouble.
Never busted to the tune of 21 Scholarships and threatened with "staring down the barrel of a gun" by the NCAA. Petty Crimes vs Major Felonies.
Jelks wasn't part of any of the above.
Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:30 am to Huddie Leadbetter
quote:He recanted only part of his initial story. He still admitted to receiving cash directly from UA coaches and boosters while in HS. And as it turned out, none of that was part of the actual NCAA violations that led to Bama's probation, because they were beyond the statue of limitations - however, the illegal loans Jelks received while playing, which were fully documented, were still within the window.
Auburn paying Gene Jelks to lie (he admitted so later) to the ncaa about being paid at Alabama
quote:It wasn't the napkin he signed that night that was the problem - it was the legally binding contract he signed in his hotel room the next morning.
UA was initially busted because Antonio Langham signed a napkin for an agent in the celebratory aftermath of the national championship game vs Miami
This is all in the NCAA's offical report, which can be found here.
Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:30 am to Irons Puppet
quote:
Petty Crimes vs Major Felonies.
Wrong answer. Auburn was busted for Pat Dye's staff paying players, and AU was forced to give up tv games for the year, when SEC teams played 2 to 3 a year, and I think they missed a bowl game one year. In the same timeframe, Alabama was busted with 18 o 21 scholarships, and made to forfeit games won on the field, because Langham signed that napkin when celebrating after that national title game. That shows the arbitrary nature of the ncaa. Coaching staffs paying players very much more undermines the game than a single player signing a napkin and then playing the next year.
Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:35 am to FearlessFreep
quote:
FearlessFreep
Had not Auburn boosters paid Gene Jelks to lie, the ncaa wouldn't even have been investigating Alabama. That was proven to be a lie, so they settle on the Langham situation. The real reason that the ncaa got a hard on for Alabama was when Gene Stalling so unceremoniously cursed and kicked the investigator out of his office. That was stupid.
Interesting, too, that all of you Auburn posters are still, still ignoring the point that the only time in our lifetimes that Auburn has competitively rivaled Alabama is when Pat Dye coached there, before he was busted for paying players, and the 10 year frametime when Alabama was recovering from its own probations. The first Alabama probations, I would note, in my lifetime.
Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:39 am to stomp
I agree with Patrick MF Fain Dye. he's right.
Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:39 am to Huddie Leadbetter
quote:
Had not Auburn boosters paid Gene Jelks to lie, the ncaa wouldn't even have been investigating Alabama. That was proven to be a lie, so they settle on the Langham situation. The real reason that the ncaa got a hard on for Alabama was when Gene Stalling so unceremoniously cursed and kicked the investigator out of his office. That was stupid.
Interesting, too, that all of you Auburn posters are still, still ignoring the point that the only time in our lifetimes that Auburn has competitively rivaled Alabama is when Pat Dye coached there, before he was busted for paying players, and the 10 year frametime when Alabama was recovering from its own probations. The first Alabama probations, I would note, in my lifetime.
Your version of the facts concerning Auburn and Alabama's probations directly refutes most of the documented evidence which can easily be found on the world wide web.
Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:39 am to Huddie Leadbetter
quote:
Wrong answer. Auburn was busted for Pat Dye's staff paying players, and AU was forced to give up tv games for the year, when SEC teams played 2 to 3 a year, and I think they missed a bowl game one year. In the same timeframe, Alabama was busted with 18 o 21 scholarships, and made to forfeit games won on the field, because Langham signed that napkin when celebrating after that national title game. That shows the arbitrary nature of the ncaa. Coaching staffs paying players very much more undermines the game than a single player signing a napkin and then playing the next year.
I do not know where to start with your fricked up memory of History:
1. AUs staff was never found guilty of paying players. The NCAA hit up AU for a booster providing unauthorized extra benefits and for Dye directing Ramsey to get a loan from a bank (illegal at that time). AU lost a total of 4 Scholarships and two years of TV (Bowl ban).
2.Bama was busted for buying Albert Means thru his Head Coach and for Logan Young's close association with the Bama Program. The window of probation was extended because of the previous issues with Langham. Without Langham Bama was still fricked.
I guess you sleep better at night thinking Bama was a victim. Or did your Daddy tell you that is what happened ?
This post was edited on 5/24/17 at 11:42 am
Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:44 am to Tigerman97
The facts
Auburn boosters paid Gene Jelks to lie about to the ncaa about being paid at Alabama. He later admitted this.
The ncaa began an investigation. It was determined there was no evidence to support Jelks' assertions (lies)
Antonio Langham did in fact sign that napkin for an agent. Maybe he signed a contract the next day. He played the next year, so that would have been against rules.
The same timeframe Pat Dye was busted for his staff paying players at Auburn. They missed a few tv games and one bowl game.
Gene Stalling cursed and kicked out of his office the ncaa investigator, which resulted in Alabama being slammed for one player's actions.
Auburn has never in my lifetime competitively rivaled Alabama when they were not soon busted for paying players, or when Alabama was busted, for whatever reason (if you prefer it that way)
Auburn boosters paid Gene Jelks to lie about to the ncaa about being paid at Alabama. He later admitted this.
The ncaa began an investigation. It was determined there was no evidence to support Jelks' assertions (lies)
Antonio Langham did in fact sign that napkin for an agent. Maybe he signed a contract the next day. He played the next year, so that would have been against rules.
The same timeframe Pat Dye was busted for his staff paying players at Auburn. They missed a few tv games and one bowl game.
Gene Stalling cursed and kicked out of his office the ncaa investigator, which resulted in Alabama being slammed for one player's actions.
Auburn has never in my lifetime competitively rivaled Alabama when they were not soon busted for paying players, or when Alabama was busted, for whatever reason (if you prefer it that way)
Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:47 am to Irons Puppet
quote:
Posted by Message
Irons Puppet
yet another dummy that doesn't understand "precipitated by"
Smoke on this one. It didn't even stop with Dye, as if anybody ever assumed it would.
and Terry Bowden admits it
Oh yeah, and not wanting to play Auburn's game is a reason he alienated Auburn boosters and was fired. Chizik played it. Cam Newton absolutely played it.
This post was edited on 5/24/17 at 11:50 am
Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:48 am to stomp
id be down for this. no reason to subject the rest of the west to having to travel to fricking auburn for athletic events
Posted on 5/24/17 at 11:53 am to Huddie Leadbetter
quote:Link?
Had not Auburn boosters paid Gene Jelks to lie, the ncaa wouldn't even have been investigating Alabama. That was proven to be a lie, so they settle on the Langham situation.
Not denying that AU boosters paid Jelks, just as Donald Watkins paid the Ramseys to get back at Dye for moving the IB to home-and-home. But when Jelks 'came clean' about getting paid, and denied a couple of the allegations he intially made to the Atlanta-Journal Constitution that initiated the NCAA investigation, he still admitted that Tide assistants Jerry Pullen and Rockey Felker (and Anniston businessman Harold Simmons) gave him cash during his recruitment, and the NCAA determined he received loans during his senior year (ironically, one of the violations AU was punished for in the Ramsey case).
quote:As you fail to acknowledge that the only period of sustained Tide success between Bryant and Saban occurred during the tumultuous years that the Ramsey scandal was being uncovered, investigated and prosecuted (1991-94). But yeah, Stallings was a great HC (outside of those four sesaons, his career record in college and the NFL was a combined 75-90-2, for a .455 winning percentage).
the only time in our lifetimes that Auburn has competitively rivaled Alabama is when Pat Dye coached there, before he was busted for paying players, and the 10 year frametime when Alabama was recovering from its own probations
Posted on 5/24/17 at 12:00 pm to FearlessFreep
quote:
FearlessFreep
Except for that timeframe from 1997 to 2007, when Alabama was recovering from ncaa trouble, Alabama has lost 12 times to Auburn in my lifetime, and I'm no spring chicken. Dye won 6 games vs Alabama (and then was busted for cheating during that timeframe), and Alabama has lost 2 times since 2007.
This post was edited on 5/24/17 at 12:03 pm
Posted on 5/24/17 at 12:03 pm to stomp
Pat Dye is a sloppy drunk that slurs his words
Posted on 5/24/17 at 12:08 pm to Huddie Leadbetter
quote:Love that passive voice, 'recovering from ncaa trouble'. You cheated and got busted for it. Own it, man.
Except for that timeframe from 1997 to 2007, when Alabama was recovering from ncaa trouble,
Oh, and I found a link for you on Jelks.
Read it and get back to me on the whole "Auburn paid Jelks to lie, Bama did nothing to deserve investigation" angle.
Posted on 5/24/17 at 12:08 pm to Huddie Leadbetter
quote:
Except for that timeframe from 1997 to 2007, when Alabama was recovering from ncaa trouble, Alabama has lost 12 times to Auburn in my lifetime, and I'm no spring chicken. Dye won 6 games vs Alabama (and then was busted for cheating during that timeframe), and Alabama has lost 2 times since 2007.
Why is this so important to you? The goal isn't to beat Auburn or for Auburn to beat bama. It's to win trophies. Ya'll have a bunch. Congrats. We have a few. Good on us.
Your facts concerning the probations are partial truths ignoring the stuff which paints bama in a poor light and high lighting rumors that paint Auburn in a negative light. Shocking! Both cheated, both got caught. I for one am thankful both sides came to an honor among thieves agreement.
This post was edited on 5/24/17 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 5/24/17 at 12:09 pm to Rhino5
Bama will make aubburn quit - just like everybody else
Posted on 5/24/17 at 12:15 pm to stomp
Love Dye and would love to be in the East but not at the expense of the Iron Bowl.
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