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re: Ole Miss plane crashes in Tuscaloosa. (Updated)
Posted on 8/15/16 at 11:00 pm to 12thFairway
Posted on 8/15/16 at 11:00 pm to 12thFairway
quote:
a very good chance of surviving if he had done that instead of trying to make it to the airport.
He sent out a distress call about 15 minutes before the crash. Not for sure, but I know it was an amount of time. The BHM air traffic control told he could try to land at either of the 2 TCL airport runways. The 30 runway was probably the one that was best oriented for him coming in from the South east direction. The plane crashed less than a quarter mile from the edge of the runway.
Is it harder to glide a plane the lower the altitude? Is this how he underestimated the height above ground he was? He did hit some trees, and those trees are maybe 30 - 40 feet tall, so maybe he didn't see the trees and just clipped the top of them? How low are you when you are a 1000 feet from the runway?
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Posted on 8/15/16 at 11:08 pm to East Coast Band
With 12,000 feet of altitude he had plenty of time to make a safe plan and land that plane on an Interstate Highway. He made a bad decision because of inexperience.
Planes glide better in high density atmosphere at low altitudes. Your description guarantees he thought he could make it to the airport - a terrible pilot error in judgement. You don't gamble. You make the right call - the safest call - and land on the freeway.
eta- 1000 feet from the runway in a Piper Twin engine Pa 31 - 100 to 200 feet in altitude.
quote:
He sent out a distress call about 15 minutes before the crash. Not for sure, but I know it was an amount of time. The BHM air traffic control told he could try to land at either of the 2 TCL airport runways. The 30 runway was probably the one that was best oriented for him coming in from the South east direction. The plane crashed less than a quarter mile from the edge of the runway.
Is it harder to glide a plane the lower the altitude? Is this how he underestimated the height above ground he was? He did hit some trees, and those trees are maybe 30 - 40 feet tall, so maybe he didn't see the trees and just clipped the top of them? How low are you when you are a 1000 feet from the runway?
Planes glide better in high density atmosphere at low altitudes. Your description guarantees he thought he could make it to the airport - a terrible pilot error in judgement. You don't gamble. You make the right call - the safest call - and land on the freeway.
eta- 1000 feet from the runway in a Piper Twin engine Pa 31 - 100 to 200 feet in altitude.
This post was edited on 8/15/16 at 11:12 pm
Posted on 8/15/16 at 11:14 pm to 12thFairway
Damn. Didn't know we had so many pilots here that we could determine pilot error so quickly. Hopefully the investigation can be done by those who know how to do it. Amateur analysis in situations like this serves no purpose.
This post was edited on 8/15/16 at 11:18 pm
Posted on 8/15/16 at 11:20 pm to 12thFairway
I'm not sure where he was when he realized he had a problem, but there is an airport in Centreville, which is 30 miles or so due southeast of TCL. He could have tried to land there.
As far as landing on a highway, I know I'd be worried about hitting cars, clipping power lines, overpasses, etc.
As far as landing on a highway, I know I'd be worried about hitting cars, clipping power lines, overpasses, etc.
Posted on 8/15/16 at 11:26 pm to beachreb61
quote:
Damn. Didn't know we had so many pilots here that we could determine pilot error so quickly.
This is a tragedy. I'm a General Aviation pilot and flying small General Aviation Planes is dangerous - especially dangerous for an inexperienced pilot. So, so many things can happen and you have to be prepared for all of them. My plane has a parachute so if I screw up I've got a fighting chance to survive with the chute. I've been flying for 35 years and as much as I love it and have confidence in my ability I still fear the uncontrollables. I no longer fly at night, in bad weather, or with low ceilings.
If this pilot guessed he could make it to the airport - that was a terrible pilot error. If he came in too low that was a terrible error. From the facts as I understand them developing power problems at 12,000 feet and coming up a quarter mile short of the airport is about as BIG a pilot error as you can make - a tragedy.
eta - at 12,000 feet you've got a lot of time and 20 to 40 miles of area to choose from. Trying to make it to a distant airport is one of the most common causes of pilot error crashes.
This post was edited on 8/15/16 at 11:32 pm
Posted on 8/15/16 at 11:40 pm to 12thFairway
K. Case closed. Send in the report.
Posted on 8/15/16 at 11:46 pm to beachreb61
quote:
K. Case closed. Send in the report
Why are you being an a-hole? There are about 200,000 people who hold a private pilot's license, and about 400,000 who are licensed to fly, period, in the entire country - and you've got at least 2 of them in this thread trying to help sort things out and another who deals with this stuff for a living. There are several others who frequent this board who would also probably be able to shed some light. What's your problem?
This post was edited on 8/15/16 at 11:49 pm
Posted on 8/16/16 at 12:35 am to beachreb61
Hate to say it, but the people on here that think they could've handled this exact situation, would've died too, unless divine intervention.
A Navajo at high gross weight in the summer time, and loses power on BOTH engines, will glide like a hacky sack once airspeed bleeds off. To make a successful emergency landing in this case, would have been almost unheard of in a twin, especially over heavily wooded terrain. Losing airspeed is a killer, especially in a twin, because once you lose Vs without engine power, it doesn't matter what altitude your at, you'll lose it.
A Navajo at high gross weight in the summer time, and loses power on BOTH engines, will glide like a hacky sack once airspeed bleeds off. To make a successful emergency landing in this case, would have been almost unheard of in a twin, especially over heavily wooded terrain. Losing airspeed is a killer, especially in a twin, because once you lose Vs without engine power, it doesn't matter what altitude your at, you'll lose it.
Posted on 8/16/16 at 12:47 am to Reservoir dawg
quote:
Hate to say it, but the people on here that think they could've handled this exact situation, would've died too, unless divine intervention.
A Navajo at high gross weight in the summer time, and loses power on BOTH engines, will glide like a hacky sack once airspeed bleeds off. To make a successful emergency landing in this case, would have been almost unheard of in a twin, especially over heavily wooded terrain. Losing airspeed is a killer, especially in a twin, because once you lose Vs without engine power, it doesn't matter what altitude your at, you'll lose it.
Exactly. Trying to glide to a distant runway with no power was never good judgement - especially in a heavy twin. PA 31 is a heavy low wing plane and to have any chance to land safely with no power he had to come in steep and hot, and most importantly, absoutely certain he could make it to the spot he chose to crashland. Hoping to glide to a distant runway was his fatal inexperience.
This post was edited on 8/16/16 at 12:55 am
Posted on 8/16/16 at 1:15 am to 12thFairway
Hell I would have given him only a 50 percent chance to make a successful landing with one engine out, due to human factors and trying to handle the airplane, once at low altitude. No margin for error.
Posted on 8/16/16 at 3:31 am to 12thFairway
I am shocked at the people here who have determined the cause of this tragedy. The evidence you have at this point is hearsay at best. And some of you pilots display a surprising lack of knowledge. I expect better from fellow aviators. 12th fairway, I can't believe how you paint general aviation as if it's some sort of death trap. Smh. None of us know what happened here; some of our fellow posters lost friends, how about a little decorum
Posted on 8/16/16 at 4:41 am to TFH
I have seen the flight track and heard the ATC recordings. The general rule is you have a mile of glide for everything 1000 ft of altitude. 80% of all accident are caused by Human factors, so with those facts nobody is going out on a limb guessing the cause of the accident. That is not why I posted on this issue anyway.
Posted on 8/16/16 at 4:41 am to TFH
Yeah....it isn't really your place to tell someone that their friend was at fault for their deaths. I know you're not doing it out of meanness or anything....but it isn't your place to do this.
Posted on 8/16/16 at 5:03 am to pankReb
Or the NTSB? Fault is not what people are trying to emphasize, it the dangers that are associated with flying when other people's lives are in you hands. Most on here are just starting the known facts, there is a chance it could be some other remote possibility.
Posted on 8/16/16 at 7:57 am to pankReb
If people here knew those on board then they shouldn't be in here. This is the Internet. People are going to speculate. You can't control that. It's very easy to just not read this thread.
Posted on 8/16/16 at 8:37 am to East Coast Band
quote:
I'd be worried about hitting cars,
Not a pilot, but I wonder if that might have been a factor in deciding not to try to land on I 20/59. Lots of people were moving in down there this weekend. The interstate was pretty busy.
This post was edited on 8/16/16 at 8:39 am
Posted on 8/16/16 at 8:45 am to pankReb
quote:
Yeah....it isn't really your place to tell someone that their friend was at fault for their deaths. I know you're not doing it out of meanness or anything....but it isn't your place to do this.
It is my understanding that you knew those involved and I am sorry for the heartache it has caused. Do understand though that it is aviation culture to not tiptoe around what happened. As a pilot, I watched people who were in accidents stand up in front of everyone and tell them what they did wrong and had people come in and tell us what our friends did wrong to cause a fatal accident. It isn't supposed to be about criticizing the dead, as I have seen incredibly talented pilots make fatal errors. It is a about brutally open and honest assessment of facts that hopefully, through sharing, will one day prevent someone else from making the same mistake. When it is shared with outsiders of the aviation community it can come across as unfair and brutal.
In this case, I will say that not all of the facts are entirely understood and it is premature to place too much blame on anyone. And regardless of the facts, it is incredibly sad. If there is a place to go to donate to the future of the children left behind, please share.
Posted on 8/26/16 at 7:09 am to GnashRebel
LINK
quote:
The National Transportation Safety Board has released a preliminary report with details about a Tuscaloosa County plane crash that killed six people.
According to the report, the plane left Kissimmee Gateway Airport at 8:55 a.m. on August 14, with plans to arrive at Oxford University Airport in Mississippi.
The Piper PA-31-325 plane was "topped off" with fuel before leaving Kissimmee.
Just after 11 a.m., Dr. Jason Farese, who was flying the plane, reported a fuel pump failure and requested a diversion to Tuscaloosa Regional Airport. When the plane was 10 miles away from the airport, the pilot reported that "the other fuel pump" was lost.
The plane then descended, hit trees in Van de Graaff Park, and crashed. All six people- three men and three women- on board were killed.
A fire broke out after the plane hit the ground.
Posted on 8/26/16 at 7:47 am to Diamondawg
quote:Day after
Not a pilot and certainly not familiar with the flight deck instruments but I thought I saw where the pilot reported a fuel pump failure prior to crash. Certainly preventable but not something the pilot could predict.
Iron Puppet's response:
quote:
They have engine driven fuel pumps and a fuel tank boost pump. To have both engines fail, usually means fuel starvation.
This post was edited on 8/26/16 at 7:50 am
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