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re: NFL GM wonders why NFL teams aren't designing offenses to help spread QBs
Posted on 9/10/15 at 10:16 am to TTsTowel
Posted on 9/10/15 at 10:16 am to TTsTowel
quote:No
If I say yes, do we meet at Sonic next?
I honestly was talking about all the shitty passing qbs that failed in the NFL and the ones that were propped up by the spread system. Honestly, Marshall's biggest threat was his legs. They opened up the passing game and allowed him to complete higher completion rates down field. 
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Posted on 9/10/15 at 10:20 am to Bench McElroy
Farmer is the worst GM in the league and works for the worst organization in the league.
Take everything he says with a shaker of salt.
Take everything he says with a shaker of salt.
Posted on 9/10/15 at 10:25 am to DaleDenton
quote:
RG3 was had the NFL a buzz over the read option.
The NFL is a monkey see monkey do league, look the Wildcat and how one team had success with it, then every team was running it a week later.
How many are still using it?
The NFL media is such a joke because they're so myopic and are always the epitome of the prisoner of the moment mindset.
When the Dolphins had success with the Wildcat against the Pats, they were lining up to declare that it wasn't a fad and that it would be here to stay. Ditto for the read option during RG3's rookie year.
Speaking of RG3, they also declared that he had officially revolutionized the QB position.
Of the Wildcat, read option and RG3, none will make an appearance this Sunday.
Posted on 9/10/15 at 10:52 am to DaleDenton
quote:
I'm sure back in the 70s people were asking why the NFL teams didn't run the wishbone...
Some did try to run the wishbone. Oakland especially went to the wishbone for a couple of years and almost got Jim Plunkett killed... which almost certainly shortened his career.
That ill-fated experiment in exposing your QB to the hits that come from pro-level defensive front sevens is still remembered. Reinforcement of the negatives when using a QB as a mult-purpose back have been numerous since that time. This is why most pro teams are pretty unwilling to run read-options today.
Note: A QB with ability to scramble such as Archie Manning or earlier, Fran Tarkington and Warren Moon, were not multi-purpose backs operating off of designed option plays. They were simply "mobile," which is an entirely different concept.
Posted on 9/10/15 at 11:14 am to Feral
quote:
Of the Wildcat, read option and RG3, none will make an appearance this Sunday.
One of these is not like the others. The read option has a place in the NFL and will likely be run a handful of times. It's just not something that you can build your offense around.
Posted on 9/10/15 at 11:50 am to DoreonthePlains
This is a great thread y'all. 
Posted on 9/10/15 at 12:01 pm to Bench McElroy
The same reason the wishbone and Spurrier's fun and gun didn't work
Spread concepts like extra receivers to eliminate congestion in "the box" when running work, but the actual "spread option" which relies on a QB to run in order to be effective won't work. RG3 found that out. Cam Neetin might be the only one who could make if work since he's built like a linebacker and can probably take a hit better that most running backs.
Spread concepts like extra receivers to eliminate congestion in "the box" when running work, but the actual "spread option" which relies on a QB to run in order to be effective won't work. RG3 found that out. Cam Neetin might be the only one who could make if work since he's built like a linebacker and can probably take a hit better that most running backs.
Posted on 9/10/15 at 12:09 pm to Feral
quote:
Feral
quote:
The NFL media is such a joke because they're so myopic and are always the epitome of the prisoner of the moment mindset. When the Dolphins had success with the Wildcat against the Pats, they were lining up to declare that it wasn't a fad and that it would be here to stay. Ditto for the read option during RG3's rookie year. Speaking of RG3, they also declared that he had officially revolutionized the QB position. Of the Wildcat, read option and RG3, none will make an appearance this Sunday.
You're pretty ignorant. Russell Wilson has gone to two Super Bowl's as the starting QB of an offense that runs a sh!tload of Zone Read/Read Option.
Kapernick took a team to the Super Bowl and on that playoff run Harbaugh ran a sh!tload of zone read/read option.
Your boy Chip Kelly in Philly went to the playoff last year running a good bit of zone read as well.
You could not possibly be more ignorant in thinking that Washington's trainwreck of an OL (who got RG3 sacked more times than any other QB in the League in each of the past two seasons) was some sort've nail in the zone-read's coffin.
Hilarious that you talk about RG3 and ignore Wilson and Kapernick in SF. But it also shows you have confirmation bias. You'll ignore the myriad of examples where its being implemented as a major-not just complementary-part of offenses around the League and succeeding for playoff, SuperBowl-caliber-teams and use one of the 5 worst NFL Franchises as an example to confirm your own biased opinions.
That's a picture perfect example of confirmation bias at work, Bro. Congrats on the ignorance and logic fails.
This post was edited on 9/10/15 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 9/10/15 at 12:10 pm to Bench McElroy
I'm a winner at the highest level of my chosen profession...
Certified publicly as such by the twice-elected, Noble Peace Prize winning President of the United States as part of "The best--the best ever" campaign team in history and proud and valued member of the dominant Democratic National Committee.
Have you ever had that kind of public compliment from the President of the United States? Ever been called the best at anything by anyone that matters? Hell, has anyone ever even noticed you away from an anonymous message board (lol)?
Don't humiliate yourself further by tangling with me, GAT. You've been embarrassed before and you'll be embarrassed again. I've forgotten more politics that you'll ever know. I can toy with you at any time and place of my choosing, and there is not a thing you can do but sit there and endure it.
And everyone here has seen it multiple times.
You are message board fodder, a loser whose total personal value each day rests on a anonymous public message board. How pathetic is that, really? It's hard for a guy like me to even relate to your type of uselessness.
When I do deign to show up here anymore, it's strictly for the laughs that you and your fellow losers provide. I just enjoy seeing you clowns whine and cry after the latest butt-whipping we dished out. You have nothing--absolutely nothing--to offer a guy like me. It shocks me that you ever thought you did.
We work, play, and think on entirely different levels. Know your place at the bottom of the pecking order and I'll leave you alone...
Certified publicly as such by the twice-elected, Noble Peace Prize winning President of the United States as part of "The best--the best ever" campaign team in history and proud and valued member of the dominant Democratic National Committee.
Have you ever had that kind of public compliment from the President of the United States? Ever been called the best at anything by anyone that matters? Hell, has anyone ever even noticed you away from an anonymous message board (lol)?
Don't humiliate yourself further by tangling with me, GAT. You've been embarrassed before and you'll be embarrassed again. I've forgotten more politics that you'll ever know. I can toy with you at any time and place of my choosing, and there is not a thing you can do but sit there and endure it.
And everyone here has seen it multiple times.
You are message board fodder, a loser whose total personal value each day rests on a anonymous public message board. How pathetic is that, really? It's hard for a guy like me to even relate to your type of uselessness.
When I do deign to show up here anymore, it's strictly for the laughs that you and your fellow losers provide. I just enjoy seeing you clowns whine and cry after the latest butt-whipping we dished out. You have nothing--absolutely nothing--to offer a guy like me. It shocks me that you ever thought you did.
We work, play, and think on entirely different levels. Know your place at the bottom of the pecking order and I'll leave you alone...
Posted on 9/10/15 at 12:26 pm to Nick W
quote:
I'm a winner at the highest level of my chosen profession...
Certified publicly as such by the twice-elected, Noble Peace Prize winning President of the United States as part of "The best--the best ever" campaign team in history and proud and valued member of the dominant Democratic National Committee.
Have you ever had that kind of public compliment from the President of the United States? Ever been called the best at anything by anyone that matters? Hell, has anyone ever even noticed you away from an anonymous message board (lol)?
Don't humiliate yourself further by tangling with me, GAT. You've been embarrassed before and you'll be embarrassed again. I've forgotten more politics that you'll ever know. I can toy with you at any time and place of my choosing, and there is not a thing you can do but sit there and endure it.
And everyone here has seen it multiple times.
You are message board fodder, a loser whose total personal value each day rests on a anonymous public message board. How pathetic is that, really? It's hard for a guy like me to even relate to your type of uselessness.
When I do deign to show up here anymore, it's strictly for the laughs that you and your fellow losers provide. I just enjoy seeing you clowns whine and cry after the latest butt-whipping we dished out. You have nothing--absolutely nothing--to offer a guy like me. It shocks me that you ever thought you did.
We work, play, and think on entirely different levels. Know your place at the bottom of the pecking order and I'll leave you alone...
What the frick is this? Whatever it is, it needs to be documented. Jesus tapdancing Christ...
Posted on 9/10/15 at 12:27 pm to Nick W
I'm gonna poop all over you Nick.
Posted on 9/10/15 at 12:28 pm to Nick W
I bet you are the life of the party!
Posted on 9/10/15 at 12:33 pm to Bench McElroy
I think he is meaning to draft one of these guys you think has potential, bring him along slowly, and do this by starting with an O he is used to. The ROI is high because these guys go undrafted, but you could end up with a quality NFL starter. If not, they can move to a different position due to their other skills.
Posted on 9/10/15 at 12:46 pm to GFunk
quote:
Wilson
Dialed back the running in year two. his game isn't built on running per se. It's built on mobility to get out of the pocket and pass down field.
quote:
Kaeppernick
Got away with half a year of running the ball. Then teams adjusted and his team hasn't been the same since.
quote:
Chip Kelly
Again, he "spreads" the field, not unlike a west coast offense would, but the reliance on the QBs legs is very limited.
The zone read will never become a mainstay of the NFL; the liability to the QB is too great, plus when you have DEs and LBs who can run as fast as the QB, it's less effective.
A spread principal isn't some new concept. The Rams were doing that back in the 90s and Bill Walsh pioneered the concept of fanning Receivers out to create space decades ago.
Posted on 9/10/15 at 12:48 pm to Bench McElroy
"Whoever can make a bad passer into a good passer is going to have a huge, huge advantage."
No wonder the Browns are so good, look at the brains on this guy.
No wonder the Browns are so good, look at the brains on this guy.
Posted on 9/10/15 at 12:48 pm to AUCE05
Christ at the idiots who think RG3 failed because of the read option. I hope he gets healthy and is able to get out of the shithole that is Washington
Posted on 9/10/15 at 12:52 pm to kilo
quote:
The Spread is effective in college because of the lack of defensive talent and schemes on whole in college football.
Yep, defense doesn't catch up to offense until the pros. NFL QBs have to have ridiculous accuracy. They throw the ball before the WR breaks, before he's ever open. Unless it's a busted assignment the passing of all about reading the defense and timing. Not "finding the open guy" like college.
Posted on 9/10/15 at 12:53 pm to Quicksilver
quote:
At Baylor, quarterback Bryce Petty was one of the most prolific passers in the country. He led the Bears to two conference championships in his last two seasons on campus and holds 31 Baylor passing records and has the lowest percentage of interceptions per pass in NCAA history.
But NFL teams were wary of Petty. Because Baylor played a “spread” offense that forced defenses to fan out across the field, making them unable to disguise anything, many scouts worried he would struggle to master the NFL game. He had to wait until the 103rd pick before the New York Jets scooped him up. Petty said he was “upset and frustrated that I was thrown away like I couldn’t learn it,” he said. “I’m like ‘you’ve got to give me a chance a little bit.’”
Petty admits to grappling with tasks such as hearing and calling the play, identifying defensive backs in coverage and identifying which player in the defensive backfield was the “mike” linebacker, the central part of the defense whose location teams base their offensive line protections on. “As crazy as it sounds, at Baylor, we did not point out the ‘mike’ linebacker,” Petty said.
Petty was unfamiliar with making adjustments to the play or the formation before the snap.
“Honestly, I wish I’d done a little bit more as far as being proactive to get into a pro style [offense],” he said, singling out the need to decipher fronts or coverages. “It was things I have never seen before.”
This post was edited on 9/10/15 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 9/10/15 at 4:01 pm to logjamming
quote:
logjamming
quote:
A spread principal isn't some new concept. The Rams were doing that back in the 90s and Bill Walsh pioneered the concept of fanning Receivers out to create space decades ago.
Bill Walsh simply added tweaks to Sid Gilman's passing concepts. He didn't pioneer them. Gilman was the pioneer. You may remember the guy he came up in coaching with...last name was Brown?
LOL...
Posted on 9/10/15 at 4:20 pm to derSturm37
quote:
hen a defense can play pro-quality man-to-man coverage on 4 and 5 receivers the "secret" of the spread is nullified.
Agreed. Also, a big plus in a spread is a QB making 3 to 5 big plays with his legs each game. We all know how that works out in the NFL.
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