re: I Know Why Saban Players Fail in the NFL

Posted by mrbroker

Sylacauga Alabama

Member since Jul 2011

16522 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 6:40 am to 2poop

I think the OP is young immature and likes to whine..There is a caller on the bham sports talk shows named Joe who is a huge Auburn douche...Just listening to the tone of his voice when he bitches bout all things Bama reminds me of undecided.

Posted by SlickTide1

Hoover Al

Member since Sep 2011

56 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 6:44 am to mrbroker

Undecided

Posted by Glory, Glory

Pawleys Island, SC

Member since Nov 2012

4498 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 6:53 am to undecided

We just recently had this discussion on Dawgrant.

Saban’s bust ratio is pretty high, dating back to his Michigan State and LSU days. Yes, he puts a lot of players in the league, but his players benefit from the scheme. Saban is a master at getting the most out of his players, but do they really develop?

I understand getting to the league is huge, but it’s also extremely important to get that 2nd contract.

Posted by Scoreboard

Madison, AL

Member since Apr 2012

2011 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 6:55 am to undecided

It's like Andre Ware, David Klingler, etc. - it's the SYSTEM that's succeeding in college, not the players. Even professional talent evaluators are fooled by the SYSTEM into seeing more talent than is really there.

Posted by undecided

Member since May 2012

15492 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 7:32 am to mrbroker

So to sum things up, Alabama fans disagree with a negative opinion of their program?

Posted by dbt_Geaux_Tigers_196

Dystopia (but well cared for)

Member since Mar 2012

25235 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 7:34 am to undecided

Posted by nc14

La Jolla

Member since Jan 2012

28193 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 7:36 am to Scoreboard

Ware and Klingler played for Saban now. The discussion might have better back and forth with examples of Saban's busts.

OP was feeling little sisterish and it came out in a thread. Maybe OP is Aundray Bruce.

This post was edited on 8/3/13 at 7:38 am

Posted by undecided

Member since May 2012

15492 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 7:38 am to nc14

quote:
OP was feeling little sisterish and it came out in a thread. Maybe OP is Aundray Bruce.

Nope my name is Keith McCants

Posted by bona fide

Burma

Member since Jun 2010

8972 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 8:05 am to Glory, Glory

quote:
Saban’s bust ratio is pretty high, dating back to his Michigan State and LSU days. Yes, he puts a lot of players in the league, but his players benefit from the scheme. Saban is a master at getting the most out of his players, but do they really develop?

I understand getting to the league is huge, but it’s also extremely important to get that 2nd contract.

Saban NFL players while at Bama, (round):

2009

A. Smith(1) - signed 2nd contract, 3yr 18mil
G.Coffee(3)- Played one year, retired
A.Caldwell(3)- signed 2nd contract with Buffalo, starter previous season
R.Johnson(3)- signed for three more years with Arizona in '13

2010

R. McClain(1)- signed 2nd contract then retired.
K.Jackson(1)- signed 5yr contract in '10
J. Arenas(2)- signed contract with new team '13
T. Cody(2)- signed 4y contract in '10
Mike Johnson(3)- 4 yr contract
Marquis Johnson(7)- out?
B. Deaderick(7)- still playing

2011

M. Dareus(1)- 4 yr contact
Julio Jones- $$$
J. Carpenter(1)- 4yr deal
Ingram(1)- 4yr deal
G. McElroy(7)- 4yr contract

2012
6 players drafted signed multi year deals
Menzie(5) one year, and traded this year
Smelley(7) ??

Looks like a high percentage of players have or will sign a second contract, with exception to the early retiree.

Posted by bona fide

Burma

Member since Jun 2010

8972 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 8:09 am to undecided

quote:
So to sum things up, Alabama fans disagree with a negative opinion of their program?

I don't see anything negative about the program in regards to the NFL but everyone can have an opinion.

If you are correct and Saban's guys are being overvalued, I consider that a very good recruiting tool. The ability to get players more than they deserve that is nice accomplishment imo. And as I posted above, it appears most will be around in the league for a while, getting paid.

This post was edited on 8/3/13 at 8:10 am

Posted by BamaELCo

Alabama

Member since Jun 2012

3210 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 8:17 am to undecided

Not sure why you keep comparing Saban coached Alabama players in the NFL to Auburn players who have been playing in the NFL for 5+ years.

What defines "success"? Which Saban guys and which Auburn guys are "successful"?

Alabama
PLAYER TEAM
Mark Anderson Buffalo Bills
Javier Arenas Arizona Cardinals
Mark Barron Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Antoine Caldwell Buffalo Bills
James Carpenter Seattle Seahawks
Josh Chapman Indianapolis Colts
Terrence Cody Baltimore Ravens
Marcell Dareus Buffalo Bills
Brandon Deaderick Jacksonville Jaguars
Quinton Dial San Francisco 49ers
D.J. Fluker San Diego Chargers
Wallace Gilberry Cincinnati Bengals
Roman Harper New Orleans Saints
Dont'a Hightower New England Patriots
Mark Ingram New Orleans Saints
Kareem Jackson Houston Texans
Jarret Johnson San Diego Chargers
Nico Johnson Kansas City Chiefs
Rashad Johnson Arizona Cardinals
Mike Johnson Atlanta Falcons
Julio Jones Atlanta Falcons
Barrett Jones St. Louis Rams
Dre Kirkpatrick Cincinnati Bengals
Eddie Lacy Green Bay Packers
Robert Lester Carolina Panthers
Evan Mathis Philadelphia Eagles
Le'Ron McClain San Diego Chargers
Greg McElroy New York Jets
DeQuan Menzie Detroit Lions
Dee Milliner New York Jets
Trent Richardson Cleveland Browns
DeMeco Ryans Philadelphia Eagles
Jeremy Shelley Atlanta Falcons
Brad Smelley Cleveland Browns
Andre Smith Cincinnati Bengals
Damion Square Philadelphia Eagles
Carson Tinker Jacksonville Jaguars
Courtney Upshaw Baltimore Ravens
Chance Warmack Tennessee Titans
Michael Williams Detroit Lions
Jesse Williams Seattle Seahawks
John Parker Wilson Pittsburgh Steelers

__________________________________________

Auburn
PLAYER TEAM
Devin Aromashodu Chicago Bears
Daren Bates St. Louis Rams
Emory Blake St. Louis Rams
Ronnie Brown San Diego Chargers
Josh Bynes Baltimore Ravens
Jason Campbell Cleveland Browns
Zach Clayton Tennessee Titans
Karlos Dansby Arizona Cardinals
Tristan Davis Washington Redskins
King Dunlap San Diego Chargers
Nick Fairley Detroit Lions
Tyronne Green New England Patriots
Quentin Groves Cleveland Browns
Ben Grubbs New Orleans Saints
Josh Harris Atlanta Falcons
Will Herring New Orleans Saints
Corey Lemonier San Francisco 49ers
Philip Lutzenkirchen St. Louis Rams
Sen'Derrick Marks Jacksonville Jaguars
Onterio McCalebb Cincinnati Bengals
Brandon Mosley New York Giants
Cam Newton Carolina Panthers
Ben Obomanu New York Jets
Jerraud Powers Arizona Cardinals
Jay Ratliff Dallas Cowboys
Carlos Rogers San Francisco 49ers
Pat Sims Oakland Raiders
John Sullen Cincinnati Bengals
Ben Tate Houston Texans
Neiko Thorpe Kansas City Chiefs
Lee Ziemba Indianapolis Colts

__________________________________________

LSU
PLAYER TEAM
Kendrick Adams Cleveland Browns
Joe Barksdale St. Louis Rams
Dwayne Bowe Kansas City Chiefs
Michael Brockers St. Louis Rams
Ron Brooks Buffalo Bills
Morris Claiborne Dallas Cowboys
Ryan Clark Pittsburgh Steelers
Chase Clement New York Giants
Jacob Cutrera Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Glenn Dorsey San Francisco 49ers
Lavar Edwards Tennessee Titans
Chris Faulk Cleveland Browns
Matt Flynn Oakland Raiders
Michael Ford Chicago Bears
Devery Henderson Washington Redskins
Jacob Hester Denver Broncos
Trindon Holliday Denver Broncos
Tyson Jackson Kansas City Chiefs
Ricky Jean Francois Indianapolis Colts
Quinn Johnson Tennessee Titans
Donnie Jones Philadelphia Eagles
Brandon LaFell Carolina Panthers
LaRon Landry Indianapolis Colts
Lazarius Levingston Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Nate Livings Dallas Cowboys
Bennie Logan Philadelphia Eagles
P.J. Lonergan Chicago Bears
Tyrann Mathieu Arizona Cardinals
Danny McCray Dallas Cowboys
Barkevious Mingo Cleveland Browns
Kevin Minter Arizona Cardinals
Sam Montgomery Houston Texans
Drake Nevis Indianapolis Colts
Stephen Peterman New York Jets
Patrick Peterson Arizona Cardinals
Deangelo Peterson Washington Redskins
Rueben Randle New York Giants
Eric Reid San Francisco 49ers
Stevan Ridley New England Patriots
Perry Riley Washington Redskins
Russell Shepard Philadelphia Eagles
Kelvin Sheppard Indianapolis Colts
Tharold Simon Seattle Seahawks
Marcus Spears Baltimore Ravens
Craig Steltz Chicago Bears
Brandon Taylor San Diego Chargers
Curtis Taylor Arizona Cardinals
Terrence Toliver Chicago Bears
Spencer Ware Seattle Seahawks
Corey Webster New York Giants
Andrew Whitworth Cincinnati Bengals
Kyle Williams Buffalo Bills
Keiland Williams Washington Redskins
Brad Wing Philadelphia Eagles
Al Woods Pittsburgh Steelers

Posted by jatebe

Queen of Links

Member since Oct 2008

18284 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 10:03 am to BamaELCo

quote:
Not sure why you keep comparing Saban coached Alabama players in the NFL to Auburn players who have been playing in the NFL for 5+ years. What defines "success"? Which Saban guys and which Auburn guys are "successful"?

They are comparing because Bama is on a roll right now and is putting a lot of players in the NFL. This frightens some fans because it means Bama is either catching up or pulling away from the other teams' records of players in the NFL.

Bama had some lean years during the Dubose, Fran, & Shula years. In 2008, Bama didn't have a player drafted. Saban has turned this around and is now putting many player in the league including multiple 1st round drafts.

After Saban puts them in the league, it is up to the player to succeed or not.

Posted by bamagreycoat

Member since Oct 2012

5749 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 10:21 am to undecided

Only a strumpet could'a shat you from her womb.

Posted by m2pro

Member since Nov 2008

28607 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 10:34 am to undecided

Negatron.

They are generally just bashed up and used up a bit. Most colleges don't burn their players to their very core like Saban at Bama. So, by the time they reach the NFL, they've already started burning their tanks down.

Posted by RollTide1987

Augusta, GA

Member since Nov 2009

65056 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 11:14 am to m2pro

They showed a stat during the 2012 Iron Bowl that was pretty startling. Since the 2009 NFL Draft, Auburn had had 10 players drafted into the league. Alabama had had 11 players drafted in the 1st round alone during that same time period.

Posted by undecided

Member since May 2012

15492 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 11:21 am to m2pro

quote:
They are generally just bashed up and used up a bit. Most colleges don't burn their players to their very core like Saban at Bama. So, by the time they reach the NFL, they've already started burning their tanks down.

Several have mentioned the physical toll in players leaving Bama which probably speaks to the number of players that have surgeries after they've declared for the draft and why they tend to fade into the background during their first few seasons. As many have also pointed out, I concede that there is still time for some players to reach their full potential once they're healthy and have caught up to the speed of the NFL.

I also think going forward that this will become a counter argument for opposing coaches to use against Bama. Remember the talk in the spring regarding Bama RB's being worn down by the time the enter the draft right around the time Eddie Lacy fell to the 2nd Rd? What coach won't use that as example for recruits that playing for Saban may actually hurt your NFL stock?

quote:
Negatron.

Maybe but you are in the minority of your teammates that understand the point I was trying to make

This post was edited on 8/3/13 at 11:23 am

Posted by undecided

Member since May 2012

15492 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 11:24 am to RollTide1987

quote:
They showed a stat during the 2012 Iron Bowl that was pretty startling. Since the 2009 NFL Draft, Auburn had had 10 players drafted into the league. Alabama had had 11 players drafted in the 1st round alone during that same time period.

This argument is the equivalent of saying I know I'm a crack head but you're a meth addict so there

Posted by mrbroker

Sylacauga Alabama

Member since Jul 2011

16522 posts

Posted on 8/3/13 at 11:26 am to BamaELCo

this pretty much shows me that undecided is a POS and does not know what he babbles. Undecided can go himself.

This post was edited on 8/3/13 at 11:27 am