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re: How close was Dooley to being fired after the UK loss? Very close
Posted on 5/19/12 at 10:44 pm to UTVols2618
Posted on 5/19/12 at 10:44 pm to UTVols2618
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Again, comprehension isn't your strong suit. Michigan, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia Tech, and Auburn are examples of programs hiring a coach with a career losing record. You avoided the question once again.
You do realize North Carolina and Virginia Tech weren't exactly good programs, right?
And both Hoke and Golden had much better resumes than Dooley did.
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Posted on 5/19/12 at 10:44 pm to ohiovol
quote:
News flash: Lot's of coaches take over bad situations. The good ones don't make excuses and get results. It may not be pretty at first, but there's generally noticeable improvement. Dooley's accomplishments include failing to maintain a long winning streak against Kentucky and bringing Tennessee back to back losing seasons for the first time in 100 years. When are you going to start holding him accountable for losing? How long does he have to continue losing before it's his fault?
Newsflash: It took those coaches longer than Dooley to get their results at their programs.
Dooley also took over UT in arguably its worst years when the SEC is at its most dominant. If you honestly believe any coach would have won the SEC or even came close with what Dooley was given, you are blind.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 10:47 pm to UTVols2618
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Newsflash: It took those coaches longer than Dooley to get their results at their programs.
I'm sure you follow all these programs closely and aren't just going on anything other than their record.
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Dooley also took over UT in arguably its worst years when the SEC is at its most dominant. If you honestly believe any coach would have won the SEC or even came close with what Dooley was given, you are blind.
I don't think any coach would have won the SEC. I also don't think many would have embarrassed themselves like Dooley has.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 10:48 pm to ohiovol
quote:
You do realize North Carolina and Virginia Tech weren't exactly good programs, right?
And both Hoke and Golden had much better resumes than Dooley did.
You do realize UT was not a good program when Dooley took the job right? Most coaches didn't want to touch this job with a 10ft pole. Contrary to what most people believed, Hamilton would have opened up the paybook. He did it for Kiffin and his crew.
Please explain how Hoke and Golden have much better resumes? Hoke has had 2 winning seasons in 8 years and it took Al Golden 4 years to have a winning record.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 10:51 pm to ohiovol
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I'm sure you follow all these programs closely and aren't just going on anything other than their record.
You said the good ones don't make excuses and get results. Dooley took over a 3 win La Tech team and won them their first bowl game in over 20 years. He did that in 2 years. It is a fact he did faster than the other coaches. Is that saying he inherited a similar problem? I don't know, La Tech's rivals writer has said time and time again Dooley was given a hard job at La Tech.
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I don't think any coach would have won the SEC. I also don't think many would have embarrassed themselves like Dooley has.
Embarrassing how? A loss to UK? Spurrier lost twice to Vandy in a row, Saban lost to ULM, and Miles lost to Kentucky. Its seems every coach has embarrassing moments.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 10:53 pm to HawgAlude
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So would you be Happy if they hired Petrino? Not a loaded question, just would like to know. He can coach again in the SEC since he was fired for cause.
Hell no, I have said countless times that Petrino has a ceiling. He does not recruit well enough to win anything meaningful. UT fans would not be happy with 10 win seasons and that is the most we could get out of Petrino unless he learned how to recruit.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 10:56 pm to UTVols2618
quote:
You do realize UT was not a good program when Dooley took the job right? Most coaches didn't want to touch this job with a 10ft pole. Contrary to what most people believed, Hamilton would have opened up the paybook. He did it for Kiffin and his crew.
Tennessee has always been a good program. A program that's struggling doesn't compare to taking over Virginia Tech when Beamer did.
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Please explain how Hoke and Golden have much better resumes? Hoke has had 2 winning seasons in 8 years and it took Al Golden 4 years to have a winning record.
Hoke won 12 games and a conference title at Ball State. He then took over a 2 win team at San Diego State that hadn't had a winning season in over a decade and he won 9 in his second year.
If you don't see how Golden improved Temple, you're either trolling or stupid.
Dooley on the other hand, ended up getting passed up by Idaho while he was at Louisiana Tech.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 10:58 pm to UTVols2618
quote:
You said the good ones don't make excuses and get results. Dooley took over a 3 win La Tech team and won them their first bowl game in over 20 years. He did that in 2 years. It is a fact he did faster than the other coaches. Is that saying he inherited a similar problem? I don't know, La Tech's rivals writer has said time and time again Dooley was given a hard job at La Tech.
The bowl game achievement doesn't mean as much when you consider they've added a ridiculous number of bowl games over the years. Didn't his predecessor win the conference at La Tech? Didn't his successor win the conference, too?
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:05 pm to ohiovol
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Tennessee has always been a good program. A program that's struggling doesn't compare to taking over Virginia Tech when Beamer did.
It doesn't matter. Dooley has had to start from scratch with this UT team. All that means is that Dooley can get recruits to come here easier, it does not change the difficulty of the rebuilding job.
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Hoke won 12 games and a conference title at Ball State. He then took over a 2 win team at San Diego State that hadn't had a winning season in over a decade and he won 9 in his second year.
If you don't see how Golden improved Temple, you're either trolling or stupid.
Dooley on the other hand, ended up getting passed up by Idaho while he was at Louisiana Tech.
You said much better. It took Hoke 5 years to win 12 games at Ball State, 4 years to have a winning record.
Dooley took over a 3 win team and won 8 games and a bowl game for the first time in over 20 years. The 4 losses he had was against Kellen Moore, Colin Kaepernick, an 8-5 Kansas team, and Army.
When did I say Golden didn't improve Temple? When did I ever say that? I think Golden is a great coach, which is why I use him in this argument. BTW, that Idaho team went to a bowl game.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:07 pm to UTVols2618
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When did I say Golden didn't improve Temple? When did I ever say that? I think Golden is a great coach, which is why I use him in this argument. BTW, that Idaho team went to a bowl game.
You were acting as if we can't see past the losing record and that's all we're judging Dooley on. That's not true. If there was reason to believe Dooley had the ability to win big here, I would be a little more optimistic. But the reality is he was just a shot in the dark by a desperate athletic director.
This post was edited on 5/19/12 at 11:08 pm
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:08 pm to ohiovol
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The bowl game achievement doesn't mean as much when you consider they've added a ridiculous number of bowl games over the years. Didn't his predecessor win the conference at La Tech? Didn't his successor win the conference, too?
Then why did it take La Tech over 20 years to win one then?
Jack Bicknell won it in 2001, but that was in a much weaker WAC, plus it was Gary Crowton that built up La Tech, he left after his third year to coach at BYU. The WAC was the strongest nonaq conference when Dooley was in there. Nevada, Hawaii, Fresno State, and Boise State were all good programs at the time.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:10 pm to UTVols2618
You do realize you're discussing the strength of the WAC for rationalizing Dooley being mediocre at best, right?
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:11 pm to ohiovol
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You were acting as if we can't see past the losing record and that's all we're judging Dooley on. That's not true. If there was reason to believe Dooley had the ability to win big here, I would be a little more optimistic. But the reality is he was just a shot in the dark by a desperate athletic director.
Im not denying that. Dooley was a sink or swim hire. I said in earlier posts that I don't have a problem with people not believing in Dooley, I understand that he hasn't given people a lot to be hopeful about, but I have seen things that makes me think he can be good here. Whether I'm right or not, we will know by the end of this year.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:13 pm to ohiovol
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You do realize you're discussing the strength of the WAC for rationalizing Dooley being mediocre at best, right?
No I'm not. You believe Brady Hoke and Al Golen are good coaches, well it took them longer to achieve a winning record in an easier conference than Dooley did in a harder conference. Thats all I'm saying. Does that mean Dooley is a better coach then them? I don't know, no one has seen Dooley coach with a team full of his players.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:19 pm to UTVols2618
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No I'm not. You believe Brady Hoke and Al Golen are good coaches, well it took them longer to achieve a winning record in an easier conference than Dooley did in a harder conference. Thats all I'm saying. Does that mean Dooley is a better coach then them? I don't know, no one has seen Dooley coach with a team full of his players.
I don't know much about those guys and the situations they took over. I know a bit about Dooley at LT, and a lot about him at Tennessee. So far, the only reason people have to justify keeping him is by pointing to other good coaches who got off to a bad start. I hope you realize how concerning that is.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:27 pm to ohiovol
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I don't know much about those guys and the situations they took over. I know a bit about Dooley at LT, and a lot about him at Tennessee. So far, the only reason people have to justify keeping him is by pointing to other good coaches who got off to a bad start. I hope you realize how concerning that is.
That is not the reason I want to keep him. Im trying to give you my side of the situation.
I have seen some good things from Dooley.
We are usually always first on prospect before he blows up, Dooley and his staff are good talent evaluators. Examples from last year alone are Peterman, Patterson, Peters, and Santos. Examples this year are Jalen Ramsey, Jalen Reeves-Maybin, and Camion Patrick.
Unlike what a lot of people thought, I saw player development. Our defense went from getting torched by Florida to playing very solid last year. Aj Johnson, Mo Couch, Curt Maggit, and Brain Randolph made great strides last year and are going to be good this year.
Darick Rogers couldn't even run a route his freshmen year and last year he was 1000 yard reciever, Tyler Bray was called inaccurate and a gunslinger, yet he was one of the most accurate and smart passers until he got hurt.
The Oline went from allowing the most sacks in maybe the nation to one of the best pass blocking lines in the SEC. I expect them to do the same with run blocking this year.
Has Dooley made questionable calls, yes. But, he is a young coach and hopefully he will learn from his mistakes.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:27 pm to ohiovol
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Hell no, I have said countless times that Petrino has a ceiling. He does not recruit well enough to win anything meaningful. UT fans would not be happy with 10 win seasons and that is the most we could get out of Petrino unless he learned how to recruit.
He took Arkansas of all places to a BCS bowl, he would win national championships there. If you all over look the baggage he would be winning in zero time.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:31 pm to HawgAlude
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He took Arkansas of all places to a BCS bowl, he would win national championships there. If you all over look the baggage he would be winning in zero time.
I will believe you if you name me one SEC champion without a top 10 recruiting class. Recruiting is the most important thing in college football. Petrino is arguably the best xs and os coach out there, but he has to resort to second tier players. Until I see a team win a national championship or SEC championship without a top 10 recruiting class, I believe Petrino has a ceiling.
Arky is in a very good position because of him now and if you all get a great recruiter, Arky has a very real possibility of winning the SEC.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:34 pm to UTVols2618
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I will believe you if you name me one SEC champion without a top 10 recruiting class. Recruiting is the most important thing in college football. Petrino is arguably the best xs and os coach out there, but he has to resort to second tier players. Until I see a team win a national championship or SEC championship without a top 10 recruiting class, I believe Petrino has a ceiling. Arky is in a very good position because of him now and if you all get a great recruiter, Arky has a very real possibility of winning the SEC.
his disadvantage with recruiting was specifically Arkansas and for whatever reason the recruiting people would always rank our recruits low. For example Brandon Allen at Fayetteville, he committed as a 3 star went on to final at a 4 star but would have been a 5 star had he committed to LSU who recruited him. The BIG recruits follow the BIG programs and the stars and money follows. Just the way it is.
Posted on 5/19/12 at 11:42 pm to HawgAlude
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his disadvantage with recruiting was specifically Arkansas and for whatever reason the recruiting people would always rank our recruits low. For example Brandon Allen at Fayetteville, he committed as a 3 star went on to final at a 4 star but would have been a 5 star had he committed to LSU who recruited him. The BIG recruits follow the BIG programs and the stars and money follows. Just the way it is.
Come on now, you can't honestly believe that. Brandon Allen committed in 2010, but was in the 2011 recruiting class. He probably didn't camp that much because he knew where he was going. It would have been hard for the rivals writers to see him early in the process. They see him in his high school games and they bump him up. If he was a 5 star, he would have had a lot more offers, it doesn't matter if he committed early or not.
Im going by the 2011 class:
Whitehurst's best offer besides Arky was Eastern Michigan.
Brett Weir had only one offer and that was Arky.
Kody Walker had Mizzou and Minnesota.
Robert Thomas was only Arky.
Chris Stinger's was USF and Kstate.
Keiro Small only had one offer.
Mitch Smothers was a great prospect and probably should have been ranked higher. 17th guard in the nation really good tho.
Jashuad Sims only had one offer and it was Arky.
Those are a few examples. They couldn't have missed that bad.
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