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re: FYI: There were more injuries among the top 20 "slow-paced" teams last season...
Posted on 7/23/13 at 7:59 am to Breesus2Jimmy
Posted on 7/23/13 at 7:59 am to Breesus2Jimmy
quote:
Makes sense, half the time on these up-tempo teams the player with the ball runs straight out of bounds before contact.
So contact is avoided? So HUNH are better for not causing injuries
quote:
this fad of high school coaches and girls bball coaches coming to cfb.
You so cute
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Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:02 am to Monticello
Out of curiosity, I'd love to see if the rate/incidence of injury in the NFL is a lot greater than it is at the primary FBS level.
Because, since the NFL is the elite of the elite, to make it in the NFL it would seem you'd have to work so much longer and harder than you would in college.
And, if you work longer and harder, you will be much more tired.
Ergo, NFL players will be injured at a much higher rate than players in the SEC/B12/B10/P10/ACC.
Right?
Because, since the NFL is the elite of the elite, to make it in the NFL it would seem you'd have to work so much longer and harder than you would in college.
And, if you work longer and harder, you will be much more tired.
Ergo, NFL players will be injured at a much higher rate than players in the SEC/B12/B10/P10/ACC.
Right?
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:07 am to beatbammer
quote:
Ergo, NFL players will be injured at a much higher rate than players in the SEC/B12/B10/P10/ACC.
They also play more games and have preseason and post season, so the injury rate should be at least double and even more for the HUNH teams of the NFL like the patriots, who average like 75 plays a game over the course of the pre, reg, and post seasons
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:08 am to Breesus2Jimmy
I'll get one thing straight first: clearly Saban's primary concern on this issue is not player safety. Everyone here has pretty muh admitted this across fanbases.
With that said, it is remarkable how poorly of a job TT is doing shooting his argument down, not even realizing he is providing the wrong stats. When this is pointed out to him he gives some illogical response and runs away.
With that said, it is remarkable how poorly of a job TT is doing shooting his argument down, not even realizing he is providing the wrong stats. When this is pointed out to him he gives some illogical response and runs away.
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:09 am to beatbammer
quote:No, not right. You think NFL players are tired when they get to gametime? They are better trained and conditioned than college players--that does not mean they are more fatigued than college players. I'd wager the opposite is true.
Out of curiosity, I'd love to see if the rate/incidence of injury in the NFL is a lot greater than it is at the primary FBS level.
Because, since the NFL is the elite of the elite, to make it in the NFL it would seem you'd have to work so much longer and harder than you would in college.
And, if you work longer and harder, you will be much more tired.
Ergo, NFL players will be injured at a much higher rate than players in the SEC/B12/B10/P10/ACC.
Right?
The whole point of strength and conditioning training is to improve athletic performance and endurance. I honestly have no clue how you arrived at the conclusion that NFL players must be more tired/fatigued than college players.
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:10 am to thatthang
quote:
With that said, it is remarkable how poorly of a job TT is doing shooting his argument down, not even realizing he is providing the wrong stats. When this is pointed out to him he gives some illogical response and runs away.
are those stats so wrong they don't even shed some light on the BS. I mean Bama fans have been trying to tell us that our D gets so winded and tired because the offense doesn't wear down the clock and give them a rest. so wouldn't the stats provided support that?
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:11 am to NYCAuburn
quote:You're taking an "all else equal" approach, and not all else is equal between the NFL and the NCAA.
They also play more games and have preseason and post season, so the injury rate should be at least double and even more for the HUNH teams of the NFL like the patriots, who average like 75 plays a game over the course of the pre, reg, and post seasons
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:13 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
You're taking an "all else equal" approach, and not all else is equal between the NFL and the NCAA.
I am following the logic presented as the cause of injuries.
More plays=More injuries, therefore more plays in the NFL, which is close if not more than double of even fast pace teams in CFB means more injuries
This post was edited on 7/23/13 at 8:14 am
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:18 am to Hog on the Hill
I think one way to test the hypothesis that defensive players are more likely to be injured when facing no huddle offenses is to look at how many injuries occur during long, sustained drives (in terms of number of plays) against no huddle offenses, and see how many of those injuries occur to players who have not been substituted. If they can show that players are more likely to be injured toward the end of those drives, then the hypothesis sticks, maybe.
But here's the thing: if a player hasn't substituted, then he has had more plays than someone who has substituted. You would need to try to correct for the difference in number of plays, and you'd have to prove that it's the lack of substitution and the fatigue associated with playing down after down without a break. It could just be that players who can't substitute are in the game for more players, and are therefore more likely to get injured during a game.
It's very complicated and it's not easy to pin down. Maybe they have sufficient data for this, but without that data, none of us on the SEC Rant can really say for sure what's right.
If you just compare teams and not individuals then you cannot really get an accurate picture of what's going on. You need to know, for a fact, that injuries are occurring to due fatigue, and not just from the number of plays in which an individual participates.
But here's the thing: if a player hasn't substituted, then he has had more plays than someone who has substituted. You would need to try to correct for the difference in number of plays, and you'd have to prove that it's the lack of substitution and the fatigue associated with playing down after down without a break. It could just be that players who can't substitute are in the game for more players, and are therefore more likely to get injured during a game.
It's very complicated and it's not easy to pin down. Maybe they have sufficient data for this, but without that data, none of us on the SEC Rant can really say for sure what's right.
If you just compare teams and not individuals then you cannot really get an accurate picture of what's going on. You need to know, for a fact, that injuries are occurring to due fatigue, and not just from the number of plays in which an individual participates.
This post was edited on 7/23/13 at 8:20 am
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:18 am to thatthang
Go ahead and post a better link with better stats. We'll wait.
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:20 am to TTsTowel
quote:This is an irrelevant deflection; the stats you posted are still crap. See above.
Go ahead and post a better link with better stats. We'll wait.
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:22 am to Hog on the Hill
You can say they are misleading, but they certainly aren't crap.
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:24 am to Hog on the Hill
Here is the thing, you have timeouts to substitute. use them if you are concerned. A player should be able to play an entire drive, he is out shape. if he is too tired to play the next drive, don't put him in. there are 85 players on a team, there should be at least one backup per position on the roster.
If a player is fatigued or could get fatigued, don't put him in, put in a fresh guy. simple solution and no rule change is needed. But that will never happen because player safety is not the concern, its really about being able to sub in certain packages of players every down
If a player is fatigued or could get fatigued, don't put him in, put in a fresh guy. simple solution and no rule change is needed. But that will never happen because player safety is not the concern, its really about being able to sub in certain packages of players every down
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:25 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
the stats you posted are still crap
how so, Like I said previously aren't the d's on teams that run a HUNH supposed to get tired because they don't get breaks. That is what the rant has been telling us for years now.
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:25 am to NYCAuburn
First of all at least on this thread I don't see so many Bama fans who have totally bought in to what Saban has said. I would say that it appears like a plausible thing that more injuries would occur when there are 20 or so more plays run, but I have no idea if the stats play that out or not. And even if they did, I wouldn't use it as an excuse to eliminate the HUNH. And even if all that was true, we still know Saban's real concern on this issue isn't player safety. So again, I don't even know why we have this argument every day because I see that most, even Alabama fans, seem to see this issue for what it is.
But with all that said, to answer your question NYC, no, I do not think TT's stats really provide any real understanding of this issue. It is too small a sample size and it isn't even the right sample. I guess they do address the more plays per game, but they do not focus on the subset that I think Saban has always focused on: the injuries to the defenders on the slow paced teams when they face fast paced teams. That is what we would need if we really wanted to talk about this.
But with all that said, to answer your question NYC, no, I do not think TT's stats really provide any real understanding of this issue. It is too small a sample size and it isn't even the right sample. I guess they do address the more plays per game, but they do not focus on the subset that I think Saban has always focused on: the injuries to the defenders on the slow paced teams when they face fast paced teams. That is what we would need if we really wanted to talk about this.
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:30 am to TTsTowel
8 starts is not a big difference in the total. Its like 5-6%.
I don't really see that it helps/hurts injuries.
I don't really see that it helps/hurts injuries.
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:32 am to thatthang
quote:
I don't even know why we have this argument every day because I see that most, even Alabama fans, seem to see this issue for what it is.
must not of been on here yesterday
quote:
, but they do not focus on the subset that I think Saban has always focused on: the injuries to the defenders on the slow paced teams when they face fast paced teams. That is what we would need if we really wanted to talk about this.
But the supposed cause of those injuries isn't simply slow teams vs fast teams. its players seeing more plays. it could be a fast team vs a fast team as well. But again, like I stated, we as auburn fans have been told this type of offense fatigues our d more than a d like bama. So I am having trouble following the logic presented here as it has changed to fit yalls arguments.
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:32 am to dawgdayafternoon
quote:
eta: I get that it has to do with the number of plays run per game, but when you have so many explosive plays that result in quick scores, it doesn't make you slow-paced.
Explosive plays for quick scores doesn't make you fast paced either. Do you huddle? Do you run up to the line to call the next play?
Those are the questions you need to ask.
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:34 am to thatthang
quote:
but they do not focus on the subset that I think Saban has always focused on: the injuries to the defenders on the slow paced teams when they face fast paced teams. That is what we would need if we really wanted to talk about this.
LSU VS Oregon 2011 look at that game as an example of the fast paced team getting worn out and injured.
Get your guys ready for a fast paced team and they'll be fine.
Posted on 7/23/13 at 8:41 am to TTsTowel
FYI, defenders react, offensive players know the play.
Legit studies could be put into fast paced Os versus Defenders and nagging injuries to ligaments, tendons, and joints.
But it is likely insignificant. :moreyouknowrainbow:
Oregon still hasn't won 3 out of 4.
Legit studies could be put into fast paced Os versus Defenders and nagging injuries to ligaments, tendons, and joints.
But it is likely insignificant. :moreyouknowrainbow:
Oregon still hasn't won 3 out of 4.
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