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re: 2013 SEC defenses - will they regress?
Posted on 6/19/13 at 5:47 pm to bisonduck
Posted on 6/19/13 at 5:47 pm to bisonduck
LSU's back 7 isn't up to it's pinnacle? That's a very high ceiling there my partner.
The question was will the LSU "D" regress from the previous season, not where it stood up against it's history.
LSU group of LBs won't only be better than '12 it will be one of it's BEST ever. Top to bottom. One to nine.
Secondary will also be better than '12. One of it's best ever? Not yet but, give it a year or two and it will.
As for that new DL.
Freak and Ego will be better as starters than last season's and will possibly be the best starting DT tandem in the SEC.
DEs Rasco and Hunter BOTH did something as Tr Fr that neither Mingo or Montgomery couldn't do. They both saw the field on the D-line as Tr Fr. When they came up in '11 and '12 the tigers DL was much deeper than when M&M arrived in BR. Rasco and Hunter are both the athletes that M&M are.
LSU starting DL could very well consist of four Jrs across the front. New to starting, yes. New to the field, no. Like I said it's about developing quality depth. Tigers starting DL is SEC quality.
Before the '11 season started had you ever heard of Brockers, Logan, Montgomery, Mingo and Downs?
Tigers have a few blue chip highly recruited D-linemen waiting to get their shot. That's not including possibly the best haul of D-linemen of any school in the country in this last sgning class. Someone will step their game up.
Breakdown of LSU's starting '12 defense by class.
Sr - 1, Jr - 8, So - 0, Fr - 2
Breakdown of '13 starters coming out of spring
Sr - 3, Jr - 5, So - 3, Fr - 0
The question was will the LSU "D" regress from the previous season, not where it stood up against it's history.
LSU group of LBs won't only be better than '12 it will be one of it's BEST ever. Top to bottom. One to nine.
Secondary will also be better than '12. One of it's best ever? Not yet but, give it a year or two and it will.
As for that new DL.
Freak and Ego will be better as starters than last season's and will possibly be the best starting DT tandem in the SEC.
DEs Rasco and Hunter BOTH did something as Tr Fr that neither Mingo or Montgomery couldn't do. They both saw the field on the D-line as Tr Fr. When they came up in '11 and '12 the tigers DL was much deeper than when M&M arrived in BR. Rasco and Hunter are both the athletes that M&M are.
LSU starting DL could very well consist of four Jrs across the front. New to starting, yes. New to the field, no. Like I said it's about developing quality depth. Tigers starting DL is SEC quality.
Before the '11 season started had you ever heard of Brockers, Logan, Montgomery, Mingo and Downs?
Tigers have a few blue chip highly recruited D-linemen waiting to get their shot. That's not including possibly the best haul of D-linemen of any school in the country in this last sgning class. Someone will step their game up.
Breakdown of LSU's starting '12 defense by class.
Sr - 1, Jr - 8, So - 0, Fr - 2
Breakdown of '13 starters coming out of spring
Sr - 3, Jr - 5, So - 3, Fr - 0
2
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:11 pm to 167back
quote:
LSU group of LBs won't only be better than '12
I feel like losing Minter will hurt the leadership and ability you had at Mike, but you're definitely stacked at OLB.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:17 pm to 167back
Everyone expects LSU to have an elite Dline. Rasco, Hunter, Ferguson and Freak will be great. What you got after them?
This post was edited on 6/19/13 at 6:25 pm
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:19 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Not by much. They still finished 1st in the SEC in total defense and went from #2 in the country to #5 in the country in total defense. That is regression but not the kind of regression you normally see after a defense loses virtually all of its starters to graduation and the draft.
Exactly. Even in our "regression", we were still better than all but 4 defenses statistically. That's not much of a regression IYAM. The SEC will still finish with more teams in the top 10 and top 25 in defense than any other conference this year.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 6:21 pm to bisonduck
They'll be better than 90% of the teams in the NCAA based on talent alone.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 7:03 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
-South Carolina - People will think I'm just flaming, but I expect a sliiiight drop by them. This is the first year without guys Elis developed so there's that, but there's also just the sheer number of losses in the back 7. Their DL is probably the best in the SEC, no one gets the credit they deserve outside of Clowney, but it's loaded. I'll be curious how they replace the losses at LB and DB though. Still will be damn good, but I expect a slight drop.
I think most USC fans are preparing for a slight drop-off on defense this season, and have been for a while. We know the big question at LB will stay there as we go into the season, as we have a 2-deep at the position of inexperienced players.
I do not understand what you're trying to say about Ellis Johnson "developing" players. Is this what the old "now that Ellis isn't USC's DC anymore, USC will fall back where they belong" tripe has now transitioned into? That our All-Time GREATEST EVARR defensive game-planner was also our All-Time GREATEST EVARR developer of talent between the games as well? I disagree...
Johnson was our LB position coach as well as our DC....during his tenure the LB position was the poorest of all positions in depth of talent as well as athleticism. In the 4-3 the LB is supposed to at least match the secondary in team tackles if not exceed it, and under Johnson ours rarely did that. Typically our secondary would lead the team in tackles.
Johnson benefited from Jasper Brinkley for one year who was recruited and developed by Tyrone Nix, and from DE-convert Eric Norwood who was already an All-SEC talent that was recruited and developed by Nix as well. After that under Ellis we have had some stout hearts and great Gamecock leaders but the talent level was not that stellar, compared to what we regularly had at DB or on the DL....
After the 2011 season we lost over 40% of our team tackles for 2012 - great tackling DBs as Allen and Gilmore, as well as LB Paulk, DT Robertson, and DE Ingram who all had around 50 tackles each. We survived that, because for the first time under Spurrier we had depth at LB...
In 2012 our LB depth finally stepped up under Botkin and became leaders in tackles. Wilson, Bowens, Holloman, and Smith made up 4 of our top 7 tacklers, and they are all gone. Losing FS Swearinger who led the team will also be a large loss...
So 2013 we'll look to our LB depth to see if we can maintain. The talent level at the position is definitely surging forward for the future with incoming talent such as Bryant, Moore, Turner, and Walton, among others. We already have some talent in-house in Cooper, Lewis, Holloman, and Rainey. The LB position looks to be more athletic and faster starting this season. They just need to grow up quickly and gain confidence and knowledge in-game faster than expected.
Our DL should be among the best in the SEC and nation. Our secondary was mostly inexperienced last season, and despite losing Swearinger we'll return 3 of 4 starters from last season so it's reasonable to overall see improvement at that position. It will all depend on the LB position...
This post was edited on 6/19/13 at 7:10 pm
Posted on 6/19/13 at 8:49 pm to ConwayGamecock
quote:
I do not understand what you're trying to say about Ellis Johnson "developing" players. Is this what the old "now that Ellis isn't USC's DC anymore, USC will fall back where they belong" tripe has now transitioned into? That our All-Time GREATEST EVARR defensive game-planner was also our All-Time GREATEST EVARR developer of talent between the games as well? I disagree...
No it's more just that I do believe he was your best DC. I also think it takes a year or two to really see the effects of a coordinator loss. again, he wasn't the sole reason for your success, but he's a damn good coach, one I hated seeing each year.
quote:
Johnson was our LB position coach as well as our DC....during his tenure the LB position was the poorest of all positions in depth of talent as well as athleticism. In the 4-3 the LB is supposed to at least match the secondary in team tackles if not exceed it, and under Johnson ours rarely did that. Typically our secondary would lead the team in tackles.
Eh, that's a result of still building the brand and being able to recruit elite talents IMO. You have built the talent depth at LB because of the brand of defense EJ brought to South Carolina. Also, Johnson inverts alot of his sets and uses his safeties in the box quite a lot as well as his CBs as force players in run support. It's not surprising at all that his defensive backs racked up large amounts of tackles.
quote:
Our DL should be among the best in the SEC and nation.
Yup
quote:
Our secondary was mostly inexperienced last season, and despite losing Swearinger we'll return 3 of 4 starters from last season so it's reasonable to overall see improvement at that position.
Yea. I don't think the loss of Swearinger can be understated though. That guy was the heart and soul of that defense, just a beast to watch. I think the secondary is mainly a product of the beastly front 7 from past years. Their ability to stop the run and get to the passer greatly masked any secondary weaknesses. There's no reason to think they'll struggle getting to the passer this year, but if the LBs fail to hold-up their end of the bargain on the run defense the secondary could be exposed somewhat. If the run defense is stout again, the secondary will be more than fine.
quote:
It will all depend on the LB position...
Yup, 100%.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 10:53 pm to bisonduck
Like I asked you before. Did you have any idea who sonic sam, keke, brockers and logan were heading into the '11 season? How bout adams, edwards, downs and freak? Ego?
Solid quality D-linemen haven't been a concern at LSU in a LONG time.
Besides the four you named Jordan Allen and Quentin Thomas had very good springs. Look for Allen to start at DE ahead of Hunter.
LSU has a solid core of five dlinemen, three DEs and two DTs. That's a great starting point.
Remember these names
Herron, LaCoture, Gilmore and Bowers. I'll throw in a couple more LBs that just might eat their way onto the DL, Beckwith and M Jones. That is the future of LSU's D-line.
Solid quality D-linemen haven't been a concern at LSU in a LONG time.
Besides the four you named Jordan Allen and Quentin Thomas had very good springs. Look for Allen to start at DE ahead of Hunter.
LSU has a solid core of five dlinemen, three DEs and two DTs. That's a great starting point.
Remember these names
Herron, LaCoture, Gilmore and Bowers. I'll throw in a couple more LBs that just might eat their way onto the DL, Beckwith and M Jones. That is the future of LSU's D-line.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 10:59 pm to AllBamaDoesIsWin
It didn't happen in the spring but, look for Barrows and his 100+ tackles to slide into the middle and K Alexander to take his spot at WLB.
Most LSU fans expect the starting three LBs to be some combo of Barrow, T Jones, K Alexander and D Jones to be the starting three. You can probally throw in Louis as an option he did start the last half the season at SLB once Alexander went down to injury.
Most LSU fans expect the starting three LBs to be some combo of Barrow, T Jones, K Alexander and D Jones to be the starting three. You can probally throw in Louis as an option he did start the last half the season at SLB once Alexander went down to injury.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 11:04 pm to 167back
quote:
Like I asked you before. Did you have any idea who sonic sam, keke, brockers and logan were heading into the '11 season? How bout adams, edwards, downs and freak?
Going into the '11 season you had a lot returning everywhere. So, yes, I had a very good idea. Mingo was being touted as the SEC's next best pass rusher (btw, he was the lines 2nd leading tackler coming off 2010). Sonic Sam was a starter up until his injury and Brockers was a major contributor. Everyone had told me Brockers was better than Pepe the year before. Same goes for Adams and Edwards - solid contributors the year before. Freak was freak.
You basically returned 3/4 starters, bro.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 11:06 pm to bisonduck
Hey they just ranked the top safeties and one wasn't Oregon. #2 was bama guy an #4 was an LSU guy. Guess Oregon is fricked.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 11:12 pm to Marty McFrat
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Hey they just ranked the top safeties and one wasn't Oregon. #2 was bama guy an #4 was an LSU guy. Guess Oregon is fricked.
We have a lot of solid safeties but none that would be considered elite. Reggie Daniels coming off his redshirt should be the next great one at Oregon. Hell, we didn't get one as a preseason all Pac (all three teams).
My point about the top cbs is that I am used to the SEC being stacked with lockdown corners. Seems like an unusual year to see none in the top 5. It's actually a compliment.
This post was edited on 6/19/13 at 11:36 pm
Posted on 6/19/13 at 11:33 pm to bisonduck
My bad. I had no idea someone from the great pacific northwest would be so knowledgeable about LSU's DL going into that season.
It's easy to look up stats after the fact and claim prior knowledge.
FYI. LSU's '11 DL returned two starters Adams and Edwards at DE. Montgomery was coming off a major knee injury and nobody knew for sure how effective he would be.
I'm not comparing the LSU '13 "D" to the '11 "D". I'm just saying the front four had some players step up their game when given the opportunity for more PT.
It's easy to look up stats after the fact and claim prior knowledge.
FYI. LSU's '11 DL returned two starters Adams and Edwards at DE. Montgomery was coming off a major knee injury and nobody knew for sure how effective he would be.
I'm not comparing the LSU '13 "D" to the '11 "D". I'm just saying the front four had some players step up their game when given the opportunity for more PT.
Posted on 6/19/13 at 11:51 pm to 167back
quote:
My bad. I had no idea someone from the great pacific northwest would be so knowledgeable about LSU's DL going into that season.
Not sure if you are serious considering the Cowboy Classic.
quote:
FYI. LSU's '11 DL returned two starters Adams and Edwards at DE. Montgomery was coming off a major knee injury and nobody knew for sure how effective he would be.
I was counting three with Edwards and Adams plus Montgomery and Brockers as partial starters (I think Montgomery with 4 and Brockers with 2, if my memory serves correctly). Most thought Montgomery was 100%. He rehabbed most of 2010 and reports were that he was full go.
quote:
I'm not comparing the LSU '13 "D" to the '11 "D". I'm just saying the front four had some players step up their game when given the opportunity for more PT.
You lost 6 guys on the dline and 3 underclassmen entrants to the NFL. That is ungodly attrition. Freak is guy that could totally blow up though and dominate a la Nick Fairley. Everyone has been waiting on Ferguson as well. However, you are an injury away from things getting really interesting.
This post was edited on 6/19/13 at 11:52 pm
Posted on 6/20/13 at 12:23 am to bisonduck
From everything I saw and read about spring practice Ego actually out performed Freak.
LSU defense as a whole in '12 started
Sr - 1, Jr - 8, So - 0 and Fr - 2
Fr in two deep (including starters) 9
starters coming out of spring
Sr - 3, Jr - 6, So - 2 and Fr - 0
Fr in two deep 3
Looks to me that '13 just might be a little more experienced going in than what '12 was.
LSU defense as a whole in '12 started
Sr - 1, Jr - 8, So - 0 and Fr - 2
Fr in two deep (including starters) 9
starters coming out of spring
Sr - 3, Jr - 6, So - 2 and Fr - 0
Fr in two deep 3
Looks to me that '13 just might be a little more experienced going in than what '12 was.
Posted on 6/20/13 at 12:44 am to 167back
I think the DL will be more productive, without a doubt, for LSU, but I feel like losing all the experience that was there will hurt when you play A&M, and MAYBE Ole Miss. Not saying you'll lose or get torn up, but saying it might take some adjustments to get things settled in when you need to mush.
Posted on 6/20/13 at 1:01 am to AllBamaDoesIsWin
Experience is the biggest key. Minter stepped up huge last and really was the heart of the D. I hope we have a guy like that this year, we'll see.
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Maybe instead of 'experience' leadership might be a better word.
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Maybe instead of 'experience' leadership might be a better word.
This post was edited on 6/20/13 at 1:02 am
Posted on 6/20/13 at 1:50 am to bisonduck
Our will be much better, of course because of Bielema and Ash, but our Defensive backs and linebackers got some depth in 2013 class coming in.
We had a very stout Run defense last year(Think it was inside the Top 25), but basically running a 4-2-5 because of no depth in the back 7 killed us.
We had a very stout Run defense last year(Think it was inside the Top 25), but basically running a 4-2-5 because of no depth in the back 7 killed us.
Posted on 9/8/13 at 3:23 pm to bisonduck
Bumped. aTm, LSU, Georgia, and USCe showing some vulnerability early on.
Posted on 9/8/13 at 3:42 pm to bisonduck
I don't know if LSU should be included in that group. They have basically allowed 2 scoring drives in each of those 2 games, while playing 7 true Frosh to get them experience.
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