re: Here Was a Man..............

Eyewitness accounts is different from firsthand. My father telling me that my mother said that she loves me could be evidence, but that evidence is weaker that her telling me. After all, there is a chance that my father lied about her telling him that she loves me...

Evidence has to be weighted. Some man writing something in a book two thousand years ago vs. Someone telling you firsthand is different. You can look into the credibility of the latter, but the credibility of the former is harder to ascertain.

Evidence? Yes....weak? Yes. Need more to entertain the possibility? Yes. Proof? No fricking way...

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Absolutely, although I do troll Christians from time to time. It was a trait that I acquired from too much time posting alongside rattletrap..

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It's interesting that Christians are often-times bashed for their fairy-tale beliefs but it's usually the atheists who act like 5 year-olds in these discussions. Nothing but name-calling and condescension.

An honest discussion is hard to come by these days.

There is no way in this day that someone can post a pro-Christmas thread and not have it sabotaged by someone who wants the rest of us to know they think we're fools for believing in Jesus as Lord. Why? Human nature I suppose.

If you don't believe, fine. Why not let us celebrate Him this time of year?

Just so you know, we agnostics get into the Jeebus season as well.



My daughter and Santa just before her Christmas play at the CHURCH which I allow her to attend with her grandparents.

I measure the fantastical with logic and reason. I don't hate the philosophy of Christ...I just don't buy into the stuff that smells funny.

Feel me? Get your hands off that...

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Yes and no. people lie all the time, so your mother saying she loves you means nothing. I'm sure the woman in Texas that drove her car into the lake killing her children told them she loved them.

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I believe you are referring to Susan Smith, and that was South Carolina.

Sure people lie all the time, but first-hand accounts absolutely are given more credibility than heresay in the sciences. Heresay is inadmissible in a court of law as well. Heresay is another layer dividing us from the truth, another code to be deciphered. Now, that doesn't mean that the secondhand account is not true, only that the credibility of the source cannot be verified, leaving its authenticity in serious doubt.

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Did you know there is gret debae that Socrates never existed? We only kow him through Plato and his witings, yet he is taught and studied in our colleges and universities. Amazing, is't it?

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More often than not, Socrates is taught in institutions with the caveat that while Socrates may have existed, the philosophy was more likely to have been the work of Plato to fit a narrative. Only the uncritical thinker ignores this and believes wholly, without doubt, that Socrates was a walking, talking philosophical jam master.

As I've stated before, I am a natural skeptic. I don't accept history as it is written in books that were used to indoctrinate me to particular narratives as a child. I only accept it as a possible version of the Truth. I read multiple accounts, and weight each one with the reason barometer that lies within.

In this same vein, I have read most of the Gnostic Gospels in order to further understand the supposed Life of Christ. But while the Gnostics have furthered an understanding of a narrative, they offer no more proof of Christ's life or, more importantly, his divinity.

I will stick with the sciences to understand a possible Godhead. Nirvana, for me, will always lie within a difinitive understanding. Faith is a boring journey, waiting for the end...

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I believe you are referring to Susan Smith, and that was South Carolina.

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Well...I was actually getting Susan Smith and Andrea Yates mixed up. Andrea Yates drowned her kids in the bathtup in Texas and Susan Smith (You are correct) drove her car into the lake. Those actually were poor examples, as I believe both are/were mentally unstable.

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As I've stated before, I am a natural skeptic. I don't accept history as it is written in books that were used to indoctrinate me to particular narratives as a child.

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Actually, as a history minor I would advise you to take MOST history as it is taught with a grain of salt. There are greatly varying versions of history as taught in our schools. OK Corral, Billy the Kid even hostorical events as recently as the Vietnam War. I missed going by a hair and remember following reports closely of the war,and as reported now many events are MUCH different than I remember. I don't know if media reports were incorrect then or if they are being changed now. (OR it could be that age is affecting my memories...our memories are often colored by our own perceptions and circumstances of the time)

Hey...I'll give you last word...and...while I have enjoyed our discussion, I'm sure many on the board would appreciate seeing this thread disappear off the front page, and I can't blame them. This is a football hread. So, if you have anymore remarks, go ahead and make them. I will read them and consider them...but we should probably let tis one die a quick death!

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now that is funny...eyewitnesses who didn't pen their accounts for 60-100 years later?..

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Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all walked with Jesus. Not sure what the timing of the written word matters. Do you think they all got together 60-100 years later and came up with a narrative that agrees with each other?

This topic was definitely a Christian message with a "Merry Christmas" attached to it.

I guess religious topics are okay on this forum. I have grown to have a more open mind in my 33 years on this planet. I always try to look at things from everybody elses perspective and backround. I feel very fortunate to have become an adult with the internet, live media, and social media. This is why:

Think about life in this country as little as 50 years ago, particularly in the American South. No internet, maybe 2 or 3 television stations, radio, your family, teachers, and your preacher. These are the things that molded your young mind. Whatever these people taught you to be fact, you believed, and you probably still do to this day. Most people had no idea there was a massive Islam religion existing and growing in the middle east with people who were taught verbatim, and believe their teachings just as strongly as Christians from other parts of the world. This is the same for Hindus in Southern Asia, and the thousands of other religions around the world.

Now we can see everything that is happening on our planet at the same time, the different religions, culture, beliefs. No country or culture is free of destruction, natural disaster, economic failure.

Whether any of the stories are true or not, religion has been used for thousands of years to inflict fear and control of the masses. It is still this way in some countries, in ours it's a profitable business. Religion is quickly losing it's grip in Western Civilization, and somehow that has turned political, and for the life of me I can't figure out why. Good strategy by the republicans I guess.

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This wasn't a pro Christmas post....it was a Christian message with a merry Christmas attached. Had you come here and wished everyone a merry Christmas I doubt you would have had many negative posts.

The reason for our need to point out the fallacies in belief are many, but suffice to say that the only way this gateway to mental illness can ever be remedied is for people who do not suffer from the affliction to quit standing by silently while the victims of constant messages and emotional pleas which include pain and suffering forever go about spreading and continuing the abuse of mankind that is faith and religion. It has only been a few centuries that man could actually speak his mind on this subject without being killed in the most horrendous sadistic manners imaginable, most of which included actions that are strikingly similar to certain sex acts accept taken to a sickening level of depravation. Even today to openly be atheist or agnostic is to accept the fact that you are going to be ridiculed, lose business, probably job opportunities and promotional opportunities and in some instances physical attack. So please excuse me for being doubtful that non-believers have ever acted as shitty as believers have and do to this day.

Y'all can believe anything you wish. Just stop trying to recruit for your team in public places and attacking my kids with your heinous pack of lies. Keep your faith to yourself are stop acting incensed when someone points out to you how you are suffering from a gateway psychosis...

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Repent and believe in Jesus Christ. He is the only way to be saved from eternal death.