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Posted on 12/22/14 at 7:04 am to HellRaisingDawg
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Ah...prove it. You can't? Gata have faith?
Defintiely gotta have faith. However, I could tell you how He has changed my life and how He has worked in my life, but you probably do not want to hear it or would chalk it up to coincidence.
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That's cool. See, I'm a skeptic...I use logic and reason
Oh, trust me...I am one of the most logical and reasoning peopl you would ever want to meet. However, we ALL use some type of faith in our lives.
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God stopped passing my BS detector quite some time ago.
Maybe He didn't think He needed to?
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Now I'm stuck with all of this useless knowledge from my misspent Pentecostal youth...what to do, what to do....?
Why not revisit it with an open mind? At one time people did not believe man could run a sub 4 minute mile. It was simply fantastical to think therwise. Beyond reason. Things change.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 7:05 am to Sanford&MunSon
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I may be wrong on that. Ravenna may still be a city, but if so it is fairly close to Venice. I'm a little rusty on my ancient history.
I think it is still known by both names, or there is a city named ravenna. But I think Venice is also known as Ravenna. Kudos on knowing that, though!
Posted on 12/22/14 at 7:06 am to DawgsLife
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DawgsLife Here Was a Man.............. Very nice. Good to get back to the true meaning of Christmas. We get so busy this time of year, we sometimes forget.
Really??? So, if you believe in Christian dogma and buy into the sentiment that Jesus is the reason for the season then you are supposed to be touched by this and get the warm fuzzier?
frick, not me....if I believed what y'all believe then Christmas would be a time to reflect on how fricked mankind has been since the birth of the "savior". Man was pretty fricked before but Jesus gave him a reason to be thankful for his being fricked...a promise of everlasting glory after a lifetime of suffering. At the least all man had to worry about before was his suffering on earth...now this Jewish bastard Virgin birth my arse) comes along and gives them all of eternity to suffer if they don't do what he says???? Y'all ought to be chunking rocks at anyone who even mentions such a tyrants name...yet you worship him.
I do, however, like the symbology of the device used to execute this wicked criminal. There is some deep seated human need to thumb their nose at the man represented by the use of a cross, nothing more than the electric chair of its day, as a symbol of their "faith". I sincerely think this is a warning to others that should they try to claim the title of god on earth or the son of god like this shyster did they too will be executed. It gives me hope that most people only front when it comes to their religion because they are afraid of what others will think and really know that the whole thing is a bunch of shite. Otherwise they will become worse than the Muslims we have all grown to love.....
Posted on 12/22/14 at 7:09 am to Sanford&MunSon
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I'm not a organized religion kind of guy, but in all fairness you can't prove that there's not either.
While I am an organized religion guy (Southern Baptist...let's not go there!
) in many ways you are better off NOT being an organized religion guy in many ways. I believe it is more about a personal relationship with Chist. organized religion CAN get in the way of that relationship, but it also can help understand and facilitate that relationship. But you have to be careful. Guys, I apologize. y intent is NOT to proselytize or try to win converts. But I am not afraid to voice my opinion (and I have an opinion on just about everythig! ) You don't have to blieve everything I believe....just one thing. Posted on 12/22/14 at 7:15 am to germandawg
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Really??? So, if you believe in Christian dogma and buy into the sentiment that Jesus is the reason for the season then you are supposed to be touched by this and get the warm fuzzier?
Well, I do.
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if I believed what y'all believe then Christmas would be a time to reflect on how fricked mankind has been since the birth of the "savior".
We see that almsot every day. I am not reminded of that at Christmas. Christmas reminds me of the hope that was brought into the world.
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a promise of everlasting glory after a lifetime of suffering.
Can't speak for everybody else, but I have not suffered my entire life. I've had some rough times, but they have been few and far between.
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, nothing more than the electric chair of its day, as a symbol of their "faith".
Actually the cross is considered one of the worst ways to die of all time. AND, I don't see it as a symbol of y faith...I see the empty tomb as the symbol of my faith. But, you can't have the empty tomb without the cross, I guess.
Sorry you don't believe. If you are right, though you can say that I lived a moral, life. If you are wrong....
Posted on 12/22/14 at 7:16 am to germandawg
Does it hurt to be such a bitter little man?? I'm not sure on religion one way or the other, but with jackoffs like the ones in this thread representing non believers, it's hard to side with them.Know some very religious people and they're good people that genuinely care about others and don't preach or look down at them. Most atheist I have met seem to intellectually superior ( in their minds ) and call anyone who disagrees with them idiots.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 7:19 am to germandawg
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now this Jewish bastard Virgin birth my arse)
Not sure why tat is so hard to believe...virgins give birth all the time today. It's called invitro fertilization.
Things thought to b impossible are now happening all the time.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 8:43 am to Sanford&MunSon
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I'm not a organized religion kind of guy, but in all fairness you can't prove that there's not either.
If God existed, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigation. It is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of proof of a god as positive proof of its non-existence.
The burden of proof lies with those making the claim.
Prove it.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 8:46 am to DawgsLife
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in many ways you are better off NOT being an organized religion guy in many ways
Ah, a personal relationship with Christ. You...I like you.
That's something that I can get behind...to the closets!
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:15 am to HellRaisingDawg
I am so proud of myself staying out of this post for the most part.. 
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:22 am to Leghumper
Me too haha. I'm not religious, and I'm not even sure if there's a higher power. If there was a personal god, Richt would have won a NC. But nevertheless, the atheist communities need to pick and choose their battles. They're protected under the constitution, but are really bitching about the wrong things sometimes.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:38 am to HellRaisingDawg
Though you and I share similar sentiments about this topic, the idea that the burden of proof lies with those making the claim sounds an awful lot like a logical fallacy e.g.; argument from ignorance.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:40 am to HellRaisingDawg
quote:Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, no matter how much you want to believe it is.
If God existed, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigation. It is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of proof of a god as positive proof of its non-existence.
The burden of proof lies with those making the claim.
Prove it
I don't think the issue is about proof or evidence, but faith. The Bible says that God is a spiritual being, without a body, therefore you can't "see" Him without Him manifesting Himself in a more tangible way (such as through the incarnation of Jesus). If God talked to you audibly or did some sort of miracle in your presence, you would still find a way to doubt it. You would probably question your own sanity before accepting God's presence. It happened when God was doing miracles in the world to establish the truth of His message, and it would happen today.
Those who say that God does exist and that His Son, Jesus Christ, took the sins of the world upon Himself and died and then was raised from the dead three days later point to the Bible as the evidence of it. For many, that is proof enough to convince them of its truth. For others (like you), that is not enough, and you ask for more evidence. If you won't be convinced by the eye-witness testimony of the scriptures, then you won't be convinced any other way.
Also, the point of the Christian faith is faith. The goal isn't about knowing that God exists, but accepting Him as your spiritual Father through faith in His Son. Salvation from sin is the goal, not head knowledge that satisfies curiosity.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:47 am to FooManChoo
So what differentiates Christianity from any of the other hundreds of religions and gods throughout time? Christians today use faith where they "just believe" and their holy book is proof enough? That's the same as every religion.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:51 am to HellRaisingDawg
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If God existed, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigation. It is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of proof of a god as positive proof of its non-existence.
The burden of proof lies with those making the claim.
Prove it.
And if your mother says she loves you...what proof do you have? no quantifiable proof exiss, right? At one time there was no quantifiable proof of germs. Or atoms. Did they exist?
Posted on 12/22/14 at 9:55 am to HellRaisingDawg
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Ah, a personal relationship with Christ. You...I like you.
That's something that I can get behind...to the closets!
No. You obviously misunderstand. I have a personal relationship with Christ. Does not mean I hide it. If you can claim a political party, I can claim my belief system. Now, I should not push it on you. But, I have had many people, without me asking...walk up to me and ask if I am a Christian because of the way I conduct myself. We do talk abou it then because they ask. but, in all honesty...how many people have walked up to you and started talking about your need to be a Chistian? Probably very few. So, I am surprised at your feeling the need to keep them out of sight. most keep themselves out of sight already.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 10:01 am to olddawg26
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So what differentiates Christianity from any of the other hundreds of religions and gods throughout time? Christians today use faith where they "just believe" and their holy book is proof enough? That's the same as every religion
Why must they all be radically different? Just because they are similar in some ways does not mean one is not true, does it? If you want difference then the Halle Bop goup fits that crteria. Being different does not icrease the odds that something is either right or wrong.
Hoever, the major difference would be Jesus and the role He plays.
This post was edited on 12/22/14 at 10:02 am
Posted on 12/22/14 at 10:02 am to olddawg26
quote:The message, itself, is the differentiation between Christianity and the rest of the religions of the world.
So what differentiates Christianity from any of the other hundreds of religions and gods throughout time? Christians today use faith where they "just believe" and their holy book is proof enough? That's the same as every religion.
Roman Catholicism aside, Christianity is different because it teaches something that no other religion does: you cannot "save" yourself (go to Heaven) based on your good works in life; you can't earn your salvation. Instead, you have to rely on God to save you from the punishment your sins deserve. That trust in God and not yourself is the difference.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 11:20 am to DawgsLife
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And if your mother says she loves you...what proof do you have? no quantifiable proof exiss, right? At one time there was no quantifiable proof of germs. Or atoms. Did they exist?
I have evidence of my mother's love. Her saying it is evidence, albeit not proof. Certainly, she could say it and not mean it, but absent any evidence to the contrary, it is then reasonable to accept the possibility of her love.
I get the argument that you are making. I've heard it all. That said, God hasn't spoken to me, therefore, I have no evidence of his/her/its existence. Certainly, the absence of evidence is not proof of absence, but this does mean that the burden of proof lies with those making a positive claim.
BTW, there was always always evidence of the existence of both germs and atoms. For thousands of years prior to discovery, philosophers and scientists alike gathered up said evidence until they were finally able to difinitivly prove their existence. That is science. That is my religion.
Much like Sagan, I do not deny the existence of a god, or something to that effect. I simply make no claims to such a thing existing without difinitve proof. I would like nothing more to discover the "unmoved mover", but I am unwilling to walk on faith alone. That cedes that part of me which makes me human to the animalistic desires of others. frick that shite.
I am a proud agnostic. I merely challenge others because to question one's "faith" is healthy. Following the herd because of some letters in a book tell you to is dangerous, no matter what anyone thinks...
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