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re: Coaching Changes Discussion - Chief locked up, what about rest?

Posted on 12/26/14 at 1:05 pm to
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24028 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 1:05 pm to
quote:

I find the hate on Spav to be a little misguided. I know people didn't like the results of plays and so they translate that to playcalling, but the truth is for quite a long stretch this year, it didn't matter what play we called, the execution just sucked.

We had experienced talent along the OL the first two years. We saw some problems last year as it got worse. But great lines make a playcaller look good. Our 2012 OL made every play work. 2013 was good, but had started to deteriorate. Our inability to run the ball this year basically gutted any gameplan.

There were a lot of issues to deal with this year. And yes, it really was an awful first year for Spav, but it's probably not fair to be judging him on the totality just yet given he spent a good bit of time this year trying to scheme around a piss poor OL.


Sorry I disagree. There are passing plays and other workarounds for having a bad OL. We ran nothing but WR bubble screens all year and that is stupid. Go back and look at some of the games from 2012/2013. We worked a short 5 yard slant with Swope and then Labhart that took the same amount of time to set up and discouraged LB blitzes. Screen passes do the same thing. The read option is another good play as you get to leave the end/OLB unblocked (Hill could have run this well, Allen maybe not). None of that requires a good OL. There are passing routes you can bait corners with (5 yard stops) and then go deeper on man, or split through shallow zones.
Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 1:15 pm to
All the 2012 OL committed before Sherman was fired. For some reason I thought Tipoti was still on the team, but apparently he left midseason. What happened there?
This post was edited on 12/26/14 at 1:18 pm
Posted by CGSC Lobotomy
Member since Sep 2011
80241 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 1:17 pm to
Back injury forced him to retire
Posted by tmc94
Member since Sep 2012
11559 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 1:54 pm to
quote:

We worked a short 5 yard slant with Swope and then Labhart that took the same amount of time to set up and discouraged LB blitzes

the play you are talking about (mostly) is Y/H-Stick. It's a run pass option that the QB reads the LB on the snap. When the slot isn't covered and the LB is a step too far inside it is a quick slant or hitch. When the LB moves out to cover the slot, it's an inside zone running play. It's incredibly effective with a strong running game.

We in fact called this play a lot this year. But it always ended up a running play as opposing teams lined up the LB outside the box and took away the pass option on it. That should open up the running lane as it reduces numbers in the box. It didn't. Its failure has absolutely nothing to do with play calling but an inability to run the ball even with numbers.
quote:

The read option is another good play as you get to leave the end/OLB unblocked

We don't run read-option. We never have even with Johnny. We ran a speed option and that's about it. It's not a staple of our offense and adding it midseason is problematic because you have to practice it incessantly because it's about execution. You also need a balance around it by incorporating it into an overall package. One problem we had with some of our screen game is in effort to find more plays to work around the OL issues, we didn't create that balance and were telegraphing plays through formations and first movement. It's not as simple as just adding a play. It has to fit into the overall scheme.

Zone-read is entirely about OL play anyway though. Just because a guy isn't blocked doesn't mean the rest of the OL doesn't do anything. The entire concept of zone read is about creating a numerical blocking advantage by giving a defender a free rush and an assignment conflict. The success of the play isn't on the conflicted defender (he should never make the play) but on the rest of your blocking.
quote:

None of that requires a good OL

There are very few concepts that don't require a good OL. Triple Option is about the most valid as it's about misdirection (and this is why the Academies run it). But no one runs any offense well that doesn't have a good OL. It took Paul Johnson quite a bit of time to get his offense up to speed at GT even.

And suggesting we should have an elite offense without an OL is just silly. We ended up as like the 30th efficiency offense this year. I'm not exactly sure how you can make the argument it should be better while conceding the OL was awful. It was inconsistent and it desperately needs to improve. But labeling everything playcalling is overly simplistic.
quote:

There are passing routes you can bait corners with (5 yard stops) and then go deeper on man, or split through shallow zones.

Of course there are. But you are being purposefully naive to include this while saying OL doesn't matter. All these require OL play and isn't congruent with your argument.
Posted by Dr RC
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
58082 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 4:00 pm to
The play calling also had nothing to do with the crazy amount of drops, terrible blocking by the WRs, and just plain piss poor effort on routes. We lost multiple positive yardage plays each game due to that. The plays were there more often than not. The execution was not.

For example, we tie it up vs Mizzou if Cam Clear makes any kind of real effort at all on that 4th down call. Arky never goes to OT if the WRs could have hung onto the ball even with Kenny being so inaccurate. Miss State would have at least been a shootout we had a real shot in if Kenny and the WRs could just execute simple pitch and catch.
This post was edited on 12/26/14 at 4:06 pm
Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 9:03 pm to
MGoBlog is calling Durkin to UM under Harbaugh. So that would leave us Mattison? Or does Mattison stay on and take a demotion to co-DC, and we have to start calling the C-list?
This post was edited on 12/26/14 at 9:17 pm
Posted by cardboardboxer
Member since Apr 2012
34332 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 11:57 pm to
quote:

MGoBlog is calling Durkin to UM under Harbaugh. So that would leave us Mattison? Or does Mattison stay on and take a demotion to co-DC, and we have to start calling the C-list?


One thing that jumped put at me today is how quick the OL coach search went, and how transparent the WR coach search has been compared to the DC search.

I am starting to think both sides are suckers- those who expect a flop hire along with those expecting the return of the Wrecking Crew.

We keep hearing how "those close to Sumlin feel his career depends on this hire" or whatever but I don't believe that anywore. I think the key is getting a top offense clicking again, no matter who the DC is.
Posted by TbirdSpur2010
ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
134026 posts
Posted on 12/27/14 at 12:08 am to
quote:

I am starting to think both sides are suckers- those who expect a flop hire along with those expecting the return of the Wrecking Crew.


I agree. I think the "availability" (he was never coming here) of Muschamp at the outset set the (unrealistic) stage for fan expectations.

As far as the latter, we're never going to have anything resembling the Wrecking Crew or the dominant LSU/Bama defenses as long as Sumlin's offensive philosophy is in place. That includes if Chavis comes here for some reason ( ). It's simply not possible given how quickly his offenses score and/or go three and out. A good defense for us is one that can produce timely stops and stiffen in the RZ consistently. As img for anything more against the caliber of competition we face weekly is a pipe dream, IMO.

And that's a tough situation to ask a new DC to step into, I don't care what their track record is.
Posted by tmc94
Member since Sep 2012
11559 posts
Posted on 12/27/14 at 12:32 am to
quote:

One thing that jumped put at me today is how quick the OL coach search went, and how transparent the WR coach search has been compared to the DC search.

The OL spot didn't go fast. And the WR spot is not transparent.

- the decision to replace Anderson happened after the ULM game. The hiring cycle was not quick at all (although I'm not sure when the hire was made - probably last Thursday when BJ was let go as we couldn't officially offer a position that wasn't open)

- on WR, the only reason everyone knows we interviewed Wyatt is because Wyatt told everyone he was being interviewed. But he's unemployed and hasn't been hired. That should clue you in that the search is not that transparent

- the way we found out Christensen is he packed up his office at Utah. The Ute beat writers got wind of it and it spread. We still haven't announced it. Before that happened, his name had never even been mentioned on A&M sites

Y'all are confusing what is public information with what is actually happening. The only things we actually know are coming from candidates themselves (that includes all info on Durkin) or their agents. There is zero coming from our side on any of this (outside of the release of Anderson)
Posted by Smoke Ring
Scenic Highway Crackhouse
Member since Dec 2010
4243 posts
Posted on 12/27/14 at 7:09 am to
quote:

Y'all are confusing what is public information with what is actually happening.


Posted by cardboardboxer
Member since Apr 2012
34332 posts
Posted on 12/27/14 at 7:45 am to
quote:

the decision to replace Anderson happened after the ULM game


Oh wow.

quote:

Y'all are confusing what is public information with what is actually happening.


Good point tmc.
Posted by cardboardboxer
Member since Apr 2012
34332 posts
Posted on 12/27/14 at 7:47 am to
quote:

It's simply not possible given how quickly his offenses score and/or go three and out.


I think a lot of people are hoping Sumlin pulls a Spurrier and throws away what he did for years to become a running the ball/defense kind of coach.
Posted by sgbtgb
Tampa, Fl
Member since Dec 2012
77 posts
Posted on 12/27/14 at 9:22 am to
Seems like Sumlin has proven he will run the ball if it comes down to it via the 2013 Arkansas game. it wasn't there this year as much. O-line did an ok job but nothing like 2013. Maybe he was trying to train Spavital on the job? That's detrimental to the reason Sumlin is the HBC. But then again, it is "his" team.
This post was edited on 12/27/14 at 9:24 am
Posted by WhiskerBiscuitSlayer
Member since Jan 2013
13840 posts
Posted on 12/27/14 at 9:35 am to
quote:

Smoke Ring


Where you been? Haven't seen you much the past few months.
Posted by tmc94
Member since Sep 2012
11559 posts
Posted on 12/27/14 at 10:06 am to
A name I'm keeping an eye on is Tee Martin (WR Coach at USC). Good recruiter. SEC ties. Coaching tonight. He didn't leave for home and UTk a few years ago but he's working for Sark now and may not like it (I've heard Sark is a bitch to work for).

FTR, pure speculation on my part. It would be Sumlin's biggest splash hire to date but we are passing on Wyatt for someone really big, I'm fairly certain of that. We'd probably have to give Martin something like co-OC or AHC title (which is why I find the supposed Christensen title interesting - not a Co, but RGC - as it leaves room for another puffed up title).
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
145171 posts
Posted on 12/27/14 at 10:10 am to
would love tee
Posted by tmc94
Member since Sep 2012
11559 posts
Posted on 12/27/14 at 10:15 am to
of course you would! We'd have a HR hire and SC would be
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
145171 posts
Posted on 12/27/14 at 10:26 am to
I can have more than one angle

This post was edited on 12/27/14 at 10:30 am
Posted by cardboardboxer
Member since Apr 2012
34332 posts
Posted on 12/27/14 at 10:33 am to
quote:

It would be Sumlin's biggest splash hire to date but we are passing on Wyatt for someone really big, I'm fairly certain of that.


I hope you are right. This position is close to the heart for Sumlin, I expect even a non splash hire to do a great job.

Thank for your Tee input! I would troll Tenn fans for months if it happened.

Heck I live poaching USC. Clancy Pendergast is my non-Chavis dream DC hire.
This post was edited on 12/27/14 at 10:35 am
Posted by Farmer1906
The Woodlands, TX
Member since Apr 2009
50423 posts
Posted on 12/27/14 at 4:08 pm to
Kevin.G@TheManKev8m8 minutes agoBud Foster getting emotional on the radio post-game, you can tell he loves Frank Beamer and Virigina Tech #Hokies
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