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re: No vacation nation
Posted on 8/27/14 at 8:09 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Posted on 8/27/14 at 8:09 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
If you look on the wikipedia page for each, there is a section called enrollment that mentions the hard numbers.
Did you look up how many people are employed in America?
Best numbers I find are 150 Million are thereabouts
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and looking at your numbers:
quote:
1) 47 million Americans are on food stamps. Many are not freeloaders.
2) 62 million on medicaid. Many are not freeloaders
3) 2.1 million households get rental and utility paid for through section 8.
That would mean 109.1 were receiving benefits - Many who are not freeloaders. So using these numbers
150M provide 109.1M some type of help with food, medical and housing.
So I don't hear government retirees, military retirees or Social Security recipients as part of this group who are getting help (being supported).
This post was edited on 8/27/14 at 8:22 pm
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Posted on 8/27/14 at 8:17 pm to Mulat
quote:Probably around 150-160 million.
Did you look up how many people are employed in America?
Posted on 8/27/14 at 8:33 pm to Phat Phil
Our work mentality is pretty fricked up IMO.
I also think the 8 hour work day, 9 hours including lunch is totally ridiculous with the average person being productive about 3.5-4 of those 9 hours per day.
Course I fall right into it as I'm at the office 9.5 hours a day on average and work about as hard as I can considering what I do while I'm there.
I do get 24 paid days off a year including holidays, but I could and would be more productive overall with less time in the office, particularly on a daily basis as my productivity generally drops towards the end of the week as I get more tired as the week progresses from the grind.
I also think the 8 hour work day, 9 hours including lunch is totally ridiculous with the average person being productive about 3.5-4 of those 9 hours per day.
Course I fall right into it as I'm at the office 9.5 hours a day on average and work about as hard as I can considering what I do while I'm there.
I do get 24 paid days off a year including holidays, but I could and would be more productive overall with less time in the office, particularly on a daily basis as my productivity generally drops towards the end of the week as I get more tired as the week progresses from the grind.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 8:35 pm to Phat Phil
Precisely why I am entering a self-employed profession.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 8:36 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
wealthiest economy int he world.
Yes in terms of GDP. In terms of individual wealth we are pretty average among the major industrialized countries with the median individuals in most of Europe having a lot more person wealth than the "average" American.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 8:39 pm to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:Are you sure about that? Wealth is nothing more than the ownership of items. I think Americans, by that standard, are extremely wealthy.
in most of Europe having a lot more person wealth than the "average" American.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 8:41 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I'm sure.
The majority of the middle class of Canada, western europe, australia, and japan are wealthier than the average middle class American. The US middle class ranks towards the low end of wealth at 19 when compared with other major industrialized countries.
The outliers of our super wealthy skew the overall numbers, but if you are comparing middle class citizens of different developed countries and their wealth, we suck.
The majority of the middle class of Canada, western europe, australia, and japan are wealthier than the average middle class American. The US middle class ranks towards the low end of wealth at 19 when compared with other major industrialized countries.
The outliers of our super wealthy skew the overall numbers, but if you are comparing middle class citizens of different developed countries and their wealth, we suck.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 8:45 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Here is a link. Our middle class wealth is way behind even though it works much harder.
Study is from Credit Suisse
LINK /
Study is from Credit Suisse
quote:
America's middle class: Poorer than you think
quote:
Americans' median wealth is a mere $44,900 per adult -- half have more, half have less. That's only good enough for 19th place, below Japan, Canada, Australia and much of Western Europe.
More from Ozy: Working for the moneyed classes
"Americans tend to think of their middle class as being the richest in the world, but it turns out, in terms of wealth, they rank fairly low among major industrialized countries," said Edward Wolff, a New York University economics professor who studies net worth.
Why is there such a big difference between the two measures?
Super rich Americans skew average wealth upwards. The U.S. has 42% of the world's millionaires, and 49% of those with more than $50 million in assets.
LINK /
Posted on 8/27/14 at 8:49 pm to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:The CNN article from which you got that from did not adjust for the affordability of everyday goods.
I'm sure.
The majority of the middle class of Canada, western europe, australia, and japan are wealthier than the average middle class American. The US middle class ranks towards the low end of wealth at 19 when compared with other major industrialized countries.
The outliers of our super wealthy skew the overall numbers, but if you are comparing middle class citizens of different developed countries and their wealth, we suck.
Likewise, while it might be true that Americans are starting to become poorer than other occident countries, it's because of the 2008 housing and economic crash.
And the article says the average person in the U.S. ranked 4th out of 20 countries. I'm not sure how you can say "most of America is poor by industrialized nations standards."
Likewise, you say that super wealthy rich folks skew the average upwards, but don't super poor people such as mexican immigrants and Delta Blacks and Appalachian white trash skew it downward?
This post was edited on 8/27/14 at 8:52 pm
Posted on 8/27/14 at 8:49 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
HailHailtoMichigan!
You honestly believe 57% of Americans aren't taking vacation pay bc they don't want to? Bc they want to work harder since it's in their cultural DNA?
Have you ever worked a job in your entire life? You sound unfathomably naive.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 8:56 pm to CHSgc
quote:I definitely think it is a cultural thing. Here is an article on it.
ou honestly believe 57% of Americans aren't taking vacation pay bc they don't want to? Bc they want to work harder since it's in their cultural DNA?
Have you ever worked a job in your entire life? You sound unfathomably naive.
LINK
I think the issue is a lot more complex than simply OH MY GOD CORPORATIONS ARE EVIL, OPPRESSED SERFS, WE NEED GOVERNMENT blah blah blah.
quote:
More proof that Americans are workaholics: Even when we get paid vacation, many of us don't take it. A new survey of employees finds that only 25 percent of employees with paid time off took all of their vacation days last year. What's worse, 15 percent took none of their vacation days at all. The rest took some portion of the days they were allotted, according to the data released Thursday by employment website Glassdoor. Even when employees took vacation, many ended up working. More than half of the employees who took vacation said they did some work while they were supposed to be off, according to the Glassdoor data.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 8:58 pm to Tiger n Miami AU83
Miami, here is why your article is a bit misleading:
Most Americans main source of "wealth" is their house. The reality market took a huge hit in a few years back. For someone who owns their home, that represents a huge hit to statistical "wealth". But it's only pertinent in cases where the home has to be placed on the market. Even when they do have to put their underwater home on the markiet, owners will often simply walk away from their loan obligations and cede the home to the lender. So the wealth statistic is misleading to say the least.
Most Americans main source of "wealth" is their house. The reality market took a huge hit in a few years back. For someone who owns their home, that represents a huge hit to statistical "wealth". But it's only pertinent in cases where the home has to be placed on the market. Even when they do have to put their underwater home on the markiet, owners will often simply walk away from their loan obligations and cede the home to the lender. So the wealth statistic is misleading to say the least.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:00 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
I definitely think it is a cultural thing. Here is an article on it. LINK I think the issue is a lot more complex than simply OH MY GOD CORPORATIONS ARE EVIL, OPPRESSED SERFS, WE NEED GOVERNMENT blah blah blah.
It's not complex. In a struggling economy with a weak job mkt workers are attempting to demonstrate their individual productivity and commitment by working harder than their peers to their personal detriment. It is NOT some altruistic lets get down to business conservative jack off fantasy that you imagine. Where the frick do you work?
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:00 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
These studies are always dubious because they leave out key information. For example, where does it include average cost of living? Australia and Europe are far more expensive to live in than anywhere in America outside of maybe Manhattan and San Francisco. Does it factor in government entitlement benefits that are not considered "income" in the U.S.? Those numbers really skew income data because you have a large group making "zero" on the books, but they're taking in a lot more than that in benefits.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:04 pm to CHSgc
quote:Personal detriment? In what world is being productive to serve your fellow men and yourself considered a "detriment"?
In a struggling economy with a weak job mkt workers are attempting to demonstrate their individual productivity and commitment by working harder than their peers to their personal detriment.
But let me ask you a question: why do you think the government should get even more involved in an employer's life? You must have an incredibly low self esteem if you think a disgusting government bureaucrat putting a gun to an employers head can somehow make your life better.
I trust a free society, made up of men and women making their own choices where to work.
This post was edited on 8/27/14 at 9:08 pm
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:09 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Personal detriment? In what world is being productive to serve your fellow men and yourself considered a "detriment"?
I don't work to "serve my fellow man" you POLI 101 fricktard, I work for my family and they would be well served seeing me every now and again. There's a reason vacation time exists: it makes for better employees and provides for good work/life balance. Working yourself to death is neither admirable nor desirable for a society.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:13 pm to CHSgc
quote:
You honestly believe 57% of Americans aren't taking vacation pay bc they don't want to? Bc they want to work harder since it's in their cultural DNA?
I have never taken all of my vacation days in 10+ years of being in the work force. Never needed or wanted to. I've probably lost in excess of a month to it.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:16 pm to 3nOut
quote:
I have never taken all of my vacation days in 10+ years of being in the work force. Never needed or wanted to. I've probably lost in excess of a month to it.
Duly noted. Quite unusual, however.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:20 pm to CHSgc
More power to you, bro. I am simply arguing that Americans, more so than other occidental people, have an affinity to work. If you disagree, that's fine.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:41 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
More power to you, bro. I am simply arguing that Americans, more so than other occidental people, have an affinity to work. If you disagree, that's fine.
No, you went a step further and implied our lack of vacation time is a conscious desire on the part of Americans to WANT to work more. You also invoked "incentives" to explain this fact, apparently entirely unaware that if we incentivized working less via govt mandate American employees would immediately lose their--as you suppose--inherent predisposition towards hard work.
There is nothing ab being American that makes one work harder. Citizenship does not confer a Herculean work ethic. Americans work harder bc of the system we've set up, and if you emigrated to Finland tmrw your children would have a work ethic similar to the natives. There is plenty of scientifically backed evidence showing that working extreme hours isn't worth the social cost, and it makes for less productive and less happy workers. We should strive to change it.
BTW, America's status as the premier economy has everything to do with out abundant natural resources, our ocean borders, and our population size, not some romantic notion of out ability to outwork our neighbors.
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