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re: No vacation nation
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:29 am to 3nOut
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:29 am to 3nOut
quote:Americans are likely behind other countries when it comes to negotiating because we don't do it. we just do as told and the only time negotiation really comes into play is job salary and buying a car. we have been trained well over time to be good slaves
i think Americans lack the ability to negotiate sometimes.
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Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:30 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
The view of we need more vacation isn't strictly a socialist view because if you are a creative thinker you can see where it can help and be profitable especially with todays technology. Now I will agree the demanding of national laws for it is a socialist leaning and probably does contribute to some of the problems.
I fricking despise politics. Capitalist this Socialist that. I think 4,5,6 weeks vacation guaranteed by law is way too much because I grew up in American culture.
But 2-3 weeks guaranteed by law can't hurt. 1/4 of American workers get 0 day. 57% of Americans don't use all of their 2 weeks. If you work 365 days a year you should get at least 2-3 weeks off. We're humans, not robots.
This post was edited on 8/27/14 at 9:35 am
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:33 am to 3nOut
quote:
why on earth is it ludicrous to suggest this? i did it at my current job. now i understand that going to your current employer and asking may not get you far, but instead of asking for a raise, ask for more time off. i think Americans lack the ability to negotiate sometimes.
In fact I tried about 3 times with the general manager which is a person just few notches below CEO. His answer was everybody else in this company gets same vacation days. I even asked if company's vacation policy could be changed and of course the answer was no.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:34 am to Phat Phil
quote:
If you work 365 days a year you should get at least 2-3 weeks off. We're humans, not robots.
The main problem (as I see it) is that it cements jobs like 'Walmart cashier' and 'Starbucks barista' as lifetime careers if you dump tons of vacation time and benefits into them.
Places like Germany, you have one career line for your entire life, basically decided when you get out of secondary school. They have tests for it. You test into something, go to school for it, and that's your life.
It's very, very difficult or impossible to change careers in Germany. Not so in America, obviously. If you think it's difficult here then you have no idea how hard it is elsewhere.
I like our 'you can do anything' economy and culture. Trying to throw in tons of benefits for crappy jobs changes that quite a bit.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:35 am to Phat Phil
Love my job. Take lots of vacations.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:41 am to Phat Phil
quote:The stats can be misleading. If you are a very replaceable part than of course you wont get or use all of your vacation because you can get booted. My suggestion to those people is make yourself more useful. If you are skilled labor or a worker with a degree that isn't on the bottom rung you can probably take your vacation and be comfortable. If you don't have a skill then you either need to prove that you are way more efficient at your non skilled job than others so you have some small value and deserve vacation or you pick up a skill. A smart business will keep a person of value and give them reasonable benefits.
57% of Americans don't use all of their 2 weeks. If you work 365 days a year you should get at least 2-3 weeks off. We're humans, not robots.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:44 am to polydorr
exactly, you don't want national laws because then crappy jobs get benefits. They could earn the benefits by becoming useful. Americans have some kind of idea that they are stuck at wherever they are when we have freedom to move about and change careers. We also have 50 different states so maybe we should leave the labor laws up to the states and if a state wants to give citizens two weeks vacation by law then move to that state. There are plenty of options in America to get what you want, some you have to work hard for but they are there. Also some of the choices take some very creative thinking and problem solving to see but it is better than being locked into a field based on a test given to you when you are 18
eta: of course we still need federal labor laws as well but vacation time shouldn't be one of them except for federal jobs
eta: of course we still need federal labor laws as well but vacation time shouldn't be one of them except for federal jobs
This post was edited on 8/27/14 at 9:45 am
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:45 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
The stats can be misleading. If you are a very replaceable part than of course you wont get or use all of your vacation because you can get booted. My suggestion to those people is make yourself more useful. If you are skilled labor or a worker with a degree that isn't on the bottom rung you can probably take your vacation and be comfortable. If you don't have a skill then you either need to prove that you are way more efficient at your non skilled job than others so you have some small value and deserve vacation or you pick up a skill. A smart business will keep a person of value and give them reasonable benefits.
Easier said than done. The problem is most workers at desk jobs are easily replaceable. Companies get hundreds of resumes a day. There are more people looking for jobs than jobs available.
Most workers are easily replaceable unless you're someone like Lebron James.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:49 am to Phat Phil
quote:
The problem is most workers at desk jobs are easily replaceable.
I think *easily* might be a bit of an oversimplification.
You don't see companies replacing their staffs on the regular (good companies, anyway). Skill set is part of it, and there's more to it than that as well.
quote:
There are more people looking for jobs than jobs available.
This is a capitalist economy. Jobs are supply and demand. Just because someone says they're looking for a certain job in a certain field doesn't mean they deserve it or some company is obligated to give it to them.
This post was edited on 8/27/14 at 9:49 am
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:51 am to Phat Phil
I didn't say it was easy. It isn't that hard either though. Yes, we have more people looking for jobs than jobs but that doesn't mean it is hard to prove your worth. If you have good work skills plus some people skills you should be able to move up a few ladder rungs fairly quickly. If you can't move up the rung at one place then put in a resume at another one where you can stand out. If you get a job and work hard for a year proving your value to the company then you should be rewarded if it is a smart company, if they don't you can find another one. I still don't see the need for national laws on vacation when we have states that can make up the laws. We also have the freedom to switch companies and fields if another company or work field has better benefits that you enjoy.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 10:08 am to Phat Phil
Also think about the unintended consequences to a national law forcing however much vacation. You have to decided what size business does this law apply to, will it only be big bad corporations that are huge, will it be small corps, smaller businesses? Then what happens to salary since a company now will need to hire more people since everyone will be forced to take vacation no matter what. so they might slice some of your salary off to give you a vacation and also replace you for however long. You now have another how ever many employees to jump over to make yourself have some true value and for promotions. Maybe some businesses cut staff so they can fall under the required employees for the law, so people lose jobs and maybe current ones have to work more and for less. It could also cause price increases in say construction because the workers have this much time off so we need a bigger crew and we have to train more people. The fast-food worker that just got vacation doesn't have anywhere to really go for vacation because they live pay check to pay check. They just sit around for a week or so? Should some businesses look to being more efficient and working friendly? of course they should but it shouldn't come from the gov pointing a gun to their head. The amount of different jobs here along with the diversity in culture and our freedoms makes the United States a unique country when it comes to work and other things. Our size also makes it very hard to compare to most of the modern first world because a lot of those countries are the size of one state. People fail to take into account the size and culture difference when they compare the US to the world.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 10:27 am to heartbreakTiger
So governments mandate by law how many and what type of paid vacations a company must give its employees? If ours can force companies to offer health care, I'm sure we are close to getting more time off too for all the sad employees that don't get enough family time. How much longer before the federal government controls everything in our economic and personal lives?
Posted on 8/27/14 at 10:29 am to crispyUGA
quote:
When 50% of the nation is subsidized by the other half, the productive half won't much time for shite like vacations and time off.
FWIW, while I prefer a capitalist society, we really need to decide if we truly want to be capitalist or socialist and stop straddling the line because it's really fricking shite up.
Upvote.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 10:30 am to heartbreakTiger
Bruh. Paragraphs. I've got five minutes between classes to read this thread and your wall of text is annoying.
Though I'm basically with you on everything you've said so far. Workers need more downtime for sure, but a tight labor market takes away much negotiating power for the average worker. Since it is costly and risky to start a business, most need the job to meet an acceptable standard of living for them. So why push hard for more vacation and not get a job because others won't demand the vacation?
We need more small businesses with people tapping their talents and interests but state/local/federal policy makes it impossible. Same with regulation and tax policy that keeps business from investing in America.
A better labor market for workers means more room to negotiate for benefits.
Though I'm basically with you on everything you've said so far. Workers need more downtime for sure, but a tight labor market takes away much negotiating power for the average worker. Since it is costly and risky to start a business, most need the job to meet an acceptable standard of living for them. So why push hard for more vacation and not get a job because others won't demand the vacation?
We need more small businesses with people tapping their talents and interests but state/local/federal policy makes it impossible. Same with regulation and tax policy that keeps business from investing in America.
A better labor market for workers means more room to negotiate for benefits.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 10:41 am to Duke
wall of text or die 
The labor market changes though so making laws while it is in a funk will possibly cuff it on the good times.
I also think the chart can be misleading since not all jobs should get the two weeks or however many off just by the nature of it. construction is a job that has random days off due to nature and what not so its hard to give workers a set amount of time off on a set date.
I agree we need more small businesses and even more innovative businesses that change the work schedule in fields where it can be changed. We have the technology to work from home and process work materials faster so we don't really need a standard 8 hour work day in every industry. I also agree we need to deregulate to help out with starting more businesses.
I agree, when the labor market expands it helps workers of all types. I also think at some point the worker has to take it on themselves to make themselves have value. Americans need to push for deregulation in industries and they also need to learn how to use the freedom to change jobs to their advantage.
The labor market changes though so making laws while it is in a funk will possibly cuff it on the good times.
I also think the chart can be misleading since not all jobs should get the two weeks or however many off just by the nature of it. construction is a job that has random days off due to nature and what not so its hard to give workers a set amount of time off on a set date.
I agree we need more small businesses and even more innovative businesses that change the work schedule in fields where it can be changed. We have the technology to work from home and process work materials faster so we don't really need a standard 8 hour work day in every industry. I also agree we need to deregulate to help out with starting more businesses.
I agree, when the labor market expands it helps workers of all types. I also think at some point the worker has to take it on themselves to make themselves have value. Americans need to push for deregulation in industries and they also need to learn how to use the freedom to change jobs to their advantage.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 11:01 am to Phat Phil
quote:
If you work 365 days a year you should get at least 2-3 weeks off.
Who works 365 days a year?
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:00 pm to crispyUGA
quote:
No vacation nation
When 50% of the nation is subsidized by the other half, the productive half won't much time for shite like vacations and time off.
FWIW, while I prefer a capitalist society, we really need to decide if we truly want to be capitalist or socialist and stop straddling the line because it's really fricking shite up.
This.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:14 pm to Phat Phil
quote:
But 2-3 weeks guaranteed by law can't hurt. 1/4 of American workers get 0 day. 57% of Americans don't use all of their 2 weeks. If you work 365 days a year you should get at least 2-3 weeks off. We're humans, not robots.
I don't know too many people who work 365 days a year.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:23 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
I don't know too many people who work 365 days a year.
I'm not too far off that mark but I also can close deals, support customers, and work from a boat with a line in the water or in my underwear.
I'm not saying I work 8 hours a day 360 days out of the year but I'm doing something work related 360 days out of the year.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 12:29 pm to 3nOut
quote:
I'm not too far off that mark but I also can close deals, support customers, and work from a boat with a line in the water or in my underwear.
I'm not saying I work 8 hours a day 360 days out of the year but I'm doing something work related 360 days out of the year.
This is me too. I work on Christmas day and New Years Day, and other holidays, but I'm not always at the office on those days.
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