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re: I blame The South for Confederate nescience
Posted on 6/26/15 at 4:26 pm to Sleeping Tiger
Posted on 6/26/15 at 4:26 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
The fact that morality had nothing to do with the combat is still a thousand miles away from having a full and truthful perspective of the war.
Was 9/11 an inside job?
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Posted on 6/26/15 at 4:27 pm to DownSouthJukin
quote:
This thread is getting perilously close to jet fuel and steel beams.
Damn you beat me to it.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 4:28 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
So like. There are plenty of speeches and declarations from the time for why states seceded. Slavery is the overwhelming theme.
There are plenty of speeches and the like in modern times declaring our 'intentions' in the middle east to create 'freedom and democracy'.
PR and agenda based comments aren't a modern invention.
With the rest of your comments, glad you see one layer of the onion, the micro economic layer -- which voids the issue of moral justice.
quote:
The international ruling class? What the frick are you talking about? What does that have to do with WHY the South seceded?
Unfortunately most people don't know how involved European elites were in creating the Civil War for their various agendas.
Sadly, this angle, the 'conspiratorial' angle, is always removed from history.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 4:30 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
With the rest of your comments, glad you see one layer of the onion, the micro economic layer -- which voids the issue of moral justice.
So the South wanted to preserve slavery, the North and Midwest wanted to end it. So the South didn't secede to preserve slavery why again?
Posted on 6/26/15 at 4:39 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
So the South wanted to preserve slavery, the North and Midwest wanted to end it. So the South didn't secede to preserve slavery why again?
The South seceded for many reasons.
LINK
Both Lincoln and the slaveholders well knew in 1860 that a constitutional amendment ending slavery would never be mathematically feasible. But Lincoln further understood that the South was gravitating toward secession as the remedy for a different grievance altogether: The egregiously inequitable effects of a U. S. protective tariff that provided 90 percent of federal revenue.
Foreign governments retaliated for it with tariffs of their own, and payment of those overseas levies represented the cost to Americans of their U. S. government. Southerners were generating two-thirds of U. S. exports, and also bearing two-thirds of the retaliatory tariffs abroad.
The result was that that the 18.5 percent of America's citizens who lived in the South were saddled with three times their proportionate share of the federal government's costs.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 4:45 pm to Sleeping Tiger
Sona tariff made the South want to preserve slavery? Or like you're saying the South would have gotten rid of slavery wihout this tariff?
Posted on 6/26/15 at 5:10 pm to Sleeping Tiger
The swastika is "misunderstood," too.
Ijs
Ijs
Posted on 6/26/15 at 5:22 pm to TbirdSpur2010
It really is. It's used as peace symbol by Hindus for example. The Nazis picked the swastika to use as a symbol precisely because of the universally positive image it held before they used it.
It really is a shame that one group of people can ruin something like that for everybody else, or that society even lets that happen.
Imagine how many symbols were used for hate by humans during pre-history that we have no idea about because there are no photographs and we continue to use today.
It really is a shame that one group of people can ruin something like that for everybody else, or that society even lets that happen.
Imagine how many symbols were used for hate by humans during pre-history that we have no idea about because there are no photographs and we continue to use today.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 5:26 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
The swastika is "misunderstood," too.
The swastika is in fact probably one of, if not the most, misunderstood symbols.
Its been widely used since ancient times in cultures that span the entire globe.
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 5:28 pm
Posted on 6/26/15 at 6:37 pm to BowlJackson
Point is, it doesn't matter.
If it gets to the point where a symbol is used for evil to great extent, discerning individuals don't go on promoting said symbol.
If it gets to the point where a symbol is used for evil to great extent, discerning individuals don't go on promoting said symbol.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 7:09 pm to tylerdurden24
quote:
quote:
the Confederate flag is misunderstood.
If it's misunderstood as being a racist emblem, then what in your opinion is it supposed to stand for?
It is a racist symbol. The civil war was about slavery. While I agree many, if not most southerners with southern ancestors believe the war was about states rights and slavery just happened to be the "violation" committed, I also believe these same southerners do not know history.
The civil war was a world war against the British empire, an extension of the war of 1812. The British empire wanted to (and still to this day is playing this long thought out plan) continue so called "free trade". The British empire (and the Spanish, French, Dutch) picked up slaves in Africa, they sold these slaves to the Americas in exchange for cotton, they took the cotton back to the UK for textile manufacturing. They then sold these textiles to India. Under the "free trade agreement" of that time India was not allowed to produce their own textile goods, as a colony they were forced to buy them from England. In exchange for the textiles the British received opium. They took this opium to China and sold it for money. They took the money back to England to bank for the empire. Lincoln wanted to raise tariffs on foreign goods to such an extent it would be cheaper for America to manufacture its own products, or be self sufficient. The crown couldn't stand for this as it threatened the empire and "free trade". So the British along with the Spanish French and Dutch instigated the civil war in an attempt to dissolve the U.S. and continue free trade and slavery (sweat shop labor) in the south. After the war, British intelligence officers assisted Booth in the assassination of Lincoln thinking even tho the north won, a new president loyal to the crown could replace Lincoln and continue free trade. They didn't expect the assassination to strengthen the support for lincoln's policies to tax foreign goods and build American manufacturing while expanding to the pacific.
And this "free trade" war and the attempts to dissolve the U.S. or make it a colony of the British crown continues to this day. Teddy Roosevelt was a blood line from the confederacy loyal to England. He work to end lincoln's work and expand "free trade" (which has nothing to do with the freedom to trade).
Now we are a country void of manufacturing, electing politicians who support free trade (on both sides). The Morgan's (bank) for decades have men on both sides of the isles. The elections are over before they begin (FDR was the last one that got away from the Bank of England).
End rant/
Study folks. Quit watching movies and shopping at Walmart.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 7:14 pm to Sleeping Tiger
This subject jumped the shark for me today. Today's local paper has this front page headline: "Park Service orders Confederate flag removed from VNMP, other parks". VNMP is the Vicksburg National Military Park.
I'm all for SC removing it from their capitol and MS changing flags, but... holy moley.
I'm all for SC removing it from their capitol and MS changing flags, but... holy moley.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 9:42 pm to Sleeping Tiger
That is true. In fact I would argue that I guarantee 90% of folks don't even know that the confederate flag was not even an official battle flag and was rejected by the confederates. They had three different official flags the Dixie flag wasn't one of them
Posted on 6/26/15 at 9:54 pm to CarolinaCock
Ignoring the racist bit, my problem with the flag is that the South had their butts handed to them by the North. Why in the world do people in the South want to keep bringing this arse-whooping up? I've thought this since I was 6 or so, long before anybody had an issue with it. Let it go!
Posted on 6/26/15 at 10:49 pm to SamuelClemens
quote:
southern ancestors believe the war was about states rights and slavery just happened to be the "violation" committed
This is the first sign you don't know what you're talking about.
The war wasn't about states rights or slavery, first and foremost.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 10:51 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
The war wasn't about states rights or slavery, first and foremost.
It was about preserving slavery.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 10:52 pm to finestfirst79
quote:
Ignoring the racist bit, my problem with the flag is that the South had their butts handed to them by the North. Why in the world do people in the South want to keep bringing this arse-whooping up?
Good lord.
Do you have any idea how the war was won?
Do you have any idea the inherent disadvantages The South had, compared to the inherent advantages of the Union?
And with that imbalance of fairness The South still put up a fight good enough to win if not for some impossible barriers to winning the war.
A few keywords: naval blockade, printing 400 million greenbacks, boat loads of immigrant soldiers.
You should feel incredible real shame for what you said.
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 10:55 pm
Posted on 6/26/15 at 10:55 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
You should feel incredible real shame for what you said.
You take yourself way to seriously. The country is better off because the South lost. Slavery was an immoral institution.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 10:55 pm to finestfirst79
quote:
Ignoring the racist bit, my problem with the flag is that the South had their butts handed to them by the North. Why in the world do people in the South want to keep bringing this arse-whooping up? I've thought this since I was 6 or so, long before anybody had an issue with it. Let it go!
Agreed:
Posted on 6/26/15 at 10:56 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
The war wasn't about states rights or slavery, first and foremost.
It was about preserving slavery.
I'm sure paying 90% of federal revenue while having 18.5% of its citizens was an afterthought. Along with all the other antagonizing economic bullshite.
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