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re: Catholic couple fined $13,000 for refusing to host same-sex ‘wedding’
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:03 pm to Vols&Shaft83
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:03 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
I understand the issue just fine, it's called being allowed to do whatever you want with your own private property.
Again. You're not allowed to discriminate. Did you see my posts at all.
1
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:09 pm to Stonehog
quote:
This proves that you don't get it.
No sir, it proves that you don't get it.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:11 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
Again. You're not allowed to discriminate. Did you see my posts at all.
Of course, I'm not arguing that the law doesn't exist in New York, I'm saying I think the law is stupid.
You want me to poop on your rug next?
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:11 pm to 3nOut
quote:
perhaps, perhaps not. the thing is that no matter the legislation that is passed, you can't remove people's beliefs
Society can, however, remove the expression of those beliefs.
quote:
But, they should have the right to refuse the business and be judged in the court of free market and public opinion and nothing more.
Anyone who operates a business that accommodates the public must afford all of that public equal opportunity to avail themselves of the business' services.
quote:
I just refuse to believe the idea of the state dictating to people that they cannot practice their personal beliefs in business is best for our society. It is a very slippery slope that I think some people are too eager to go down.
What's slippery about equal rights?
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:13 pm to Stonehog
quote:
When you say "personal beliefs" are you talking about religious beliefs? Also, does your scenario only involve discriminating against gay people?
no, i meant personal.
i think that if a business wants to discriminate and be a bigot/homophobe/racist/reverse-racist, they have that right. and then we as a society have a right to protest, picket, avoid, or patronize that company as seen fit.
Case in point: Chick Fil A donated to some anti-gay/pro-marriage/whatever organizations. I can take or leave what somebody does with their charitable contributions for the most part. I do however support Chic-Fil-A's way they treat their customers and employees, their minority, elderly, and special needs hiring practices, and (based on anecdotal evidence) how they've treated gay employees. I feel that people have the right to scream holler, boycott, protest, whatever they do against chic fil a as a result. And we saw that the majority of the public outdid the boycott that single day with a a buycott. But i would become very angry if the Government stepped in in any form in telling a company how to spend its money.
To relate that to race, i don't know of any place i can name that treats people of different color differently, but if i did, i'd choose not to patronize it. I'm not going to scream to the government or sue because a person wanted to make a personal stupid decision. if i were a clippers fan and attended games or anything of the sort last year, i would have cancelled any monetary support of the team until sterling was gone, but Silver's actions were too much. With the Redskins, I don't think the NFL has any business telling Snyder what to do. But Harry Reid has every right to cancel his season tickets.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:28 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Society can, however, remove the expression of those beliefs.
and i would say that would be wrong of society.
quote:
Anyone who operates a business that accommodates the public must afford all of that public equal opportunity to avail themselves of the business' services.
and i would argue the constitutionality of that ruling.
quote:
What's slippery about equal rights?
it's slippery when the government tells me how to operate my land.
Look. I have a disdain for racists, homophobes ,etc. as much as anybody. I just think that the individual has the right to be one.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:33 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
Of course, I'm not arguing that the law doesn't exist in New York, I'm saying I think the law is stupid.
Anti-discrimination laws are stupid?
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:35 pm to 3nOut
quote:
Look. I have a disdain for racists, homophobes ,etc. as much as anybody. I just think that the individual has the right to be one.
As do I, but as it relates to commerce nothing happens in a vacuum. I completely support anti-discrimination laws. Separate but equal is inherently unequal.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:35 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
Anti-discrimination laws are stupid?
Private property rights are stupid?
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:37 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
Private property rights are stupid?
Yes. Much like blacks getting hotels in the deep south in the 90s, their money, and their right to spend it like any other citizen is important.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:42 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
Yes. Much like blacks getting hotels in the deep south in the 90s, their money, and their right to spend it like any other citizen is important.
while i understand your ethos, you are ignoring the part of the freedom of speech that a person has with that property.
The argument taking place on all of our fronts is two things. The right to freedom of speech and religion and the right to equality. They are two twains that never shall meet.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:49 pm to 3nOut
quote:
while i understand your ethos, you are ignoring the part of the freedom of speech that a person has with that property.
Not ignoring it at all. I completely agree with the heart of Atlanta motel ruling. I completely agree with the Civil rights act. I understand the sentiment to buy in to a "it's my property the government can't tell me what do with it" at all costs mentality as it plays well on talk radio, but this isn't the reality. This doesn't protect free markets.
For instance, anti-trust laws. You, me, Vols and Shaft all operate our oligopoly for some widget. We are all independently operated. We make our own widgets. We can do whatever we want with our property? Right? Wrong. Collusion is illegal and for good reason. Using our excess cash to prevent others from entering the market is illegal. There are very real world and practical examples where people have used their private property to damage free markets. Some regulations promote competition. I don't know how we got to the point where we forgot this. It's like net neutrality. Do people really think Comcast should be able to treat different data equally based on "private property" rights?
Posted on 11/11/14 at 3:11 pm to 3nOut
Here's the blueprint to end this nonsense.
Christian business Owner approached by homos.
"Hey, will you photograph our wedding?"
"Sure."
"Well, we need to tell you it's a gay wedding."
"Perfect. All the proceeds from this job will go to Focus on the Family."
Problem Fricking solved.
Christian business Owner approached by homos.
"Hey, will you photograph our wedding?"
"Sure."
"Well, we need to tell you it's a gay wedding."
"Perfect. All the proceeds from this job will go to Focus on the Family."
Problem Fricking solved.
This post was edited on 11/11/14 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 11/11/14 at 3:24 pm to the808bass
quote:
Here's the blueprint to end this nonsense.
Christian business Owner approached by homos.
"Hey, will you photograph our wedding?"
"Sure."
"Well, we need to tell you it's a gay wedding."
"Perfect. All the proceeds from this job will go to Focus on the Family."
Problem Fricking solved.
Sure. The gays get the wedding photos that they want, and the non-profits trying to stop gay marriage get more money to throw at a losing effort. Sounds like a win-win. In the marketplace of ideas, Focus on the Family is doing nothing but losing. They present fraudulent research, support losing candidates, and their biggest win, Prop 8, has already been declared Unconstitutional. I think the gays would love that.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 3:43 pm to TeLeFaWx
FotF is good people. Come off it.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 3:43 pm to TeLeFaWx
You're fun. In a gay way.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 3:52 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
FotF is good people. Come off it.
I can agree in certain things. I find myself pro-choice most of the time, but I do love their work with adoption, and wish less women would choose abortion because I think it's a horrible weight to carry for the rest of their lives. I don't support their anti-gay, anti-porn, and anti-premarital sex agenda however. Different strokes, Tbird. Even though we disagree on stuff I still love you, sm/bf.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 3:57 pm to the808bass
quote:
You're fun. In a gay way.
You have fun with the gays, huh?
Posted on 11/11/14 at 3:57 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
I can agree in certain things. I find myself pro-choice most of the time, but I do love their work with adoption, and wish less women would choose abortion because I think it's a horrible weight to carry for the rest of their lives. I don't support their anti-gay, anti-porn, and anti-premarital sex agenda however. Different strokes, Tbird. Even though we disagree on stuff I still love you, sm/bf.
would you support their pro-bang-the-babysitter agenda?
Posted on 11/11/14 at 3:58 pm to TeLeFaWx
TBIRD isn't anti gay,anti porn, or anti premarital sex.
You're such a racist. WOULD YOU PLEASE GET THAT
AWAY FROM YOUR USERNAME.
You're such a racist. WOULD YOU PLEASE GET THAT
AWAY FROM YOUR USERNAME.
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