Started By
Message
re: Breaking: Black Suspect Shoots Cop in Missouri During Traffic Stop
Posted on 7/10/16 at 5:05 pm to TbirdSpur2010
Posted on 7/10/16 at 5:05 pm to TbirdSpur2010
That is where you are wrong. This comply or die mentality we've instilled in our officers is a huge problem. Of course the gun crazy right will be supportive of these actions, but it's too open to interpretation of what feeling threatened is.
This is where we are though, a gun crazed society that violently murders each other at a rate comparable to a civil war decimated African country. And many are ok with that.
I'm not. I know it's not a popular opinion on this board being overwhelming white, southern and conservative but I fundamentally disagree.
This is where we are though, a gun crazed society that violently murders each other at a rate comparable to a civil war decimated African country. And many are ok with that.
I'm not. I know it's not a popular opinion on this board being overwhelming white, southern and conservative but I fundamentally disagree.
3
Posted on 7/10/16 at 5:13 pm to JesusQuintana
Posted on 7/10/16 at 6:11 pm to JesusQuintana
I'm black, Texan, and conservative, and I disagree with you.
I'm also not gun-crazed. Just thinking rationally instead of emotionally.
I'm also not gun-crazed. Just thinking rationally instead of emotionally.
This post was edited on 7/10/16 at 6:15 pm
Posted on 7/10/16 at 7:12 pm to TbirdSpur2010
Fair enough.
Posted on 7/10/16 at 10:43 pm to JesusQuintana
LINK /
Back to the OP, they released the name of the cop who was shot. Haven't seen any updates beyond him still being in critical condition. And yep, got him more than one hot dog up at the local youth baseball park.
On a side note, a sign that you've done something right raising your kids. Daughter went up to the QT for an iced tea the night after this happened and a bunch of Manchester and Ballwin cops were there, one lady cop balling. Daughter, who only has a trivial minimum wage job while in school, went up and bought all the cops' coffees. She didn't realize they all get them free anyways, but the gesture was appreciated by all with hugs all around.
Back to the OP, they released the name of the cop who was shot. Haven't seen any updates beyond him still being in critical condition. And yep, got him more than one hot dog up at the local youth baseball park.
On a side note, a sign that you've done something right raising your kids. Daughter went up to the QT for an iced tea the night after this happened and a bunch of Manchester and Ballwin cops were there, one lady cop balling. Daughter, who only has a trivial minimum wage job while in school, went up and bought all the cops' coffees. She didn't realize they all get them free anyways, but the gesture was appreciated by all with hugs all around.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 1:30 am to blacknblu
Well what I've heard through the grapevine is he matched the BOLO for a robbery suspect. Not sure if that holds any weight, but if it's true the department (I think) should always get ahead of the narrative, because if they don't, the media will create it.
Posted on 7/11/16 at 3:46 am to JesusQuintana
quote:Absolutely horrible take. The problem is that we've reached a point where non compliance is viewed as OK when the officers have engaged these folks for legitimate reasons.
See, this is the problem. We've reached a point where noncompliance equals death. That's not how this works. Lethal force is the ultimate last resort, but it's not that way many times.
Posted on 7/12/16 at 9:55 am to blue_morrison
That won't happen because they want to let the other side play their cards first so they can build their own narrative around it. If they get their own narrative out too fast, the other side can craft their own poking holes in it
Posted on 7/12/16 at 4:54 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Hyperbole.
Every time a police officer kills, rather than arrests, a suspect, they subvert the rule of law. I know there are some situations where the police have no choice but the kill a suspect. But it seems to me that the police sometimes choose to kill the suspect out of anger, frustration, or convenience, and then try to convince everyone that they had no choice.
If we allow the State to execute people in the street with impunity, we are no longer a nation under the rule of law. We are a nation of vigilantes.
It's easy to dismiss instances where the suspect was a career criminal. I mean, we're better off when those criminals are dead, right? But more and more we're seeing instances where the police kill law-abiding citizens. This violence is crossing over. Why are they doing it? Because they get away with it when they kill career criminals? Are bad habits that hard to break?
This isn't an issue that affects only poor black males. All Americans are in danger. Or maybe we've always been in danger, only now we're aware of it because we have cameras that show often the police lie (pretty much all the time).
Posted on 7/12/16 at 5:08 pm to Papplesbeast
quote:
Every time a police officer kills, rather than arrests, a suspect, they subvert the rule of law.
Stopped there, and thought I'd note you should go frick yourself at your earliest convenience.
I'll read the rest, but by the time I'm done, you should be fricking yourself.
Posted on 7/12/16 at 5:13 pm to Papplesbeast
quote:
police sometimes choose to kill the suspect out of anger, frustration, or convenience, and then try to convince everyone that they had no choice.
I am sure there are a few bad cops who do exactly that, and they are scum who do not deserve to draw another breath.
However, that is usually not the case, given how few people are killed overall in police interactions, even those interactions which do become physical.
The numbers just do not add up.
quote:
It's easy to dismiss instances where the suspect was a career criminal. I mean, we're better off when those criminals are dead, right?
This has never been my argument. When I (almost invariably) see the usually extensive rap sheet of the deceased in question, my thought process is that they led a life of bad decisions and flaunting of the law and ended up making a final mistake there was no coming back from. It's not that they "deserved" to die--it's that they acted stupidly/criminally enough once again to jeopardize their own well-being.
quote:
If we allow the State to execute people in the street with impunity, we are no longer a nation under the rule of law. We are a nation of vigilantes
I'm not advocating vigilantism. I'm saying the bolded is hyperbole because that's not an accurate representation of current events or trends.
quote:
All Americans are in danger.
Again, hyperbole. I'm about to be in more danger driving home from work on Loop 1604 than I'll be if a random cop stops me.
Because I don't act a fool.
The overwhelming majority of law-abiding, upstanding citizens have nothing substantial to fear from your average joe-blow cop.
This post was edited on 7/12/16 at 5:16 pm
Posted on 7/12/16 at 5:28 pm to Papplesbeast
What the frick are you on about man? Statistics bear out that whites and blacks are killed at EXACTLY the same rate each year by officers when they have to use deadly force. Minority officers are also shown to be FAR MORE frequently the one pulling the trigger on the black suspects, and that whites are killed FAR MORE frequently by white officers. Considering minorities are statistically more responsible for crimes, while being outnumbered 65/35 in the population.....the statistics bear out that the police are pretty consistent with their decision to use deadly force across the board.
This post was edited on 7/12/16 at 5:29 pm
Posted on 7/12/16 at 5:34 pm to UKWildcats
quote:
UKWildcats
That frick nut has obviously never had to put his/her life on the line for something before. He/she is obviously a student or a fricking troll.
Subverting the law
You should still be fricking yourself dumbass.
Posted on 7/12/16 at 8:01 pm to UKWildcats
quote:
What the frick are you on about man? Statistics bear out that whites and blacks are killed at EXACTLY the same rate each year by officers when they have to use deadly force. Minority officers are also shown to be FAR MORE frequently the one pulling the trigger on the black suspects, and that whites are killed FAR MORE frequently by white officers. Considering minorities are statistically more responsible for crimes, while being outnumbered 65/35 in the population.....the statistics bear out that the police are pretty consistent with their decision to use deadly force across the board.
Where in my post did I say anything about race?
Posted on 7/12/16 at 8:26 pm to blacknblu
quote:
That frick nut has obviously never had to put his/her life on the line for something before. He/she is obviously a student or a fricking troll.
Subverting the law
You should still be fricking yourself dumbass.
Every time the State executes a citizen without a trial, it is subversion of the rule of law, by definition. When a police officer shoots someone, he is assuming the role of judge, jury, and executioner. That is the rule of men, not law.
When a police officer arrests a citizen, the State must prove the suspect's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. When a police officer kills a citizen, the State must prove the suspect's innocence beyond a reasonable doubt (in order to convict the police officer). It is much more difficult to prove innocence (a negative) than it is to prove guilt (a positive). The result is that when a police officer kills a citizen, it effectively flips the presumption of innocence into a presumption of guilt.
I still don't understand how John Wrana, a 95-year old WWII veteran, was deemed so dangerous that police officers needed to shoot him four times. The guy survived the Nazis, but Chicago police put him down like a dog. And the justice system determined that the shooting was justified. How is it that supposedly well-trained police officers were unable to handle a 95-year old man in a nursing home without unloading a bunch of bullets into him?
This post was edited on 7/12/16 at 8:28 pm
Posted on 7/12/16 at 8:27 pm to Papplesbeast
quote:
Papplesbeast
Are you still fricking yourself? No one said to quit!
ETA: if they shot him 4 times, obviously 3 didn't work
quote:
I still don't understand how John Wrana, a 95-year old WWII veteran, was deemed so dangerous that police officers needed to shoot him four times. The guy survived the Nazis, but Chicago police put him down like a dog. And the justice system determined that the shooting was justified. How is it that supposedly well-trained police officers were unable to handle a 95-year old man in a nursing home without unloading a bunch of bullets into him?
This post was edited on 7/12/16 at 8:32 pm
Posted on 7/12/16 at 8:30 pm to blacknblu
quote:
Are you still fricking yourself? No one said to quit!
In other words, you don't have a rebuttal. All you've got are insults. You've got something in common with the BLM protesters who call the police "pigs".
Posted on 7/12/16 at 8:33 pm to Papplesbeast
I edited 
I also may have been a bit too harsh. How about you become a police officer?
I also may have been a bit too harsh. How about you become a police officer?
This post was edited on 7/12/16 at 8:57 pm
Posted on 7/12/16 at 8:57 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
I am sure there are a few bad cops who do exactly that, and they are scum who do not deserve to draw another breath.
However, that is usually not the case, given how few people are killed overall in police interactions, even those interactions which do become physical.
The numbers just do not add up.
Police unions make it incredibly difficult to fire bad cops. It annoys me that teacher's unions are portrayed as horrible and corrupt because they don't allow bad teachers to be fired, yet police unions are almost never criticized. I guess a teacher who is bad at teaching math is far more dangerous than a bad cop.
quote:
This has never been my argument. When I (almost invariably) see the usually extensive rap sheet of the deceased in question, my thought process is that they led a life of bad decisions and flaunting of the law and ended up making a final mistake there was no coming back from. It's not that they "deserved" to die--it's that they acted stupidly/criminally enough once again to jeopardize their own well-being.
Right. Government is full of lazy, incompetent people, expect when it comes to police. While most government agencies get pretty much everything wrong, the police miraculously get everything right. Police officers are so competent, they put even NASA to shame.
quote:
I'm not advocating vigilantism. I'm saying the bolded is hyperbole because that's not an accurate representation of current events or trends.
It's not hyperbole. According to the Washington Post, police killed 990 citizens last year. They're on pace to break 1000 this year. That might be a new record, so congrats, I guess. Violent crime has fallen for 23 straight years (as of 2014), yet there is one type of violence that increases unabated: police shooting of citizens.
I suppose if the police are responsible for the reduction in crime, maybe we should let them kill whoever they feel like killing. It's probably in our best interest.
Posted on 7/12/16 at 9:02 pm to blacknblu
quote:
I edited
I also may have been a bit too harsh. How about you become a police officer?
I would be bored out of my mind. There's not enough math. I'm far better suited for my current job, senior solar plant design engineer. It comes with the perk of never feeling guilty because I busted down someone's door looking for pot.
I would totally support substantial increases to police officer pay in order to attract more/better candidates. Police are necessary, but the system is a god awful mess right now. Pretending that there aren't problems doesn't make them go away.
This post was edited on 7/12/16 at 9:04 pm
Page 4 of 5
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News