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re: 5 babies infected with measles at a Chicago daycare
Posted on 2/6/15 at 10:08 am to cokebottleag
Posted on 2/6/15 at 10:08 am to cokebottleag
quote:
Even in the days of the polio epidemic, vaccinations were not mandatory.
No, but I'm sure parents were thinking "Gee, I'd rather take the risk of my child being put in an iron lung rather than put that dangerous vaccine in them."
My issue is that the anti-vaccine people have had the luxury of herd immunity to make those decisions with relatively small risk, and because of that, they're the reason that herd immunity is starting to crack.
1
Posted on 2/6/15 at 10:26 am to cokebottleag
quote:
If the government can say what my kid gets as far as vaccinations, then the government gets to say what I can feed my child. And as we can all see from a certain school lunch program, that's asking for stupid
There is a fundamental difference between food and vaccines.
Most if not all schools do not require kids to eat school lunch, they can bring their own from home if they wish. What they eat will not affect the children around them.
Vaccines are a different story. What they did or did not receive WILL potentially affect the children around them.
I'm all for parenting how you want. But, I do not want a national security crisis due to an outbreak of a disease that can be prevented by vaccines.
Posted on 2/6/15 at 10:52 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
And then you have Rand Paul talking about it should be "freedom of choice" with vaccines.
I agree Rand. Then those non-vaccinated kids can not participate in daycares or public school to protect those who cannot medically be vaccinated too. But that won't happen now will it?
I believe in "freedom of choice" for un-vaccinated kids but I also believe in "freedom of choice" to deny service like daycare.
Posted on 2/6/15 at 11:03 am to cokebottleag
quote:
If the government can say what my kid gets as far as vaccinations, then the government gets to say what I can feed my child. And as we can all see from a certain school lunch program, that's asking for stupid.
What a ridiculous thing to say.
Your kids' lunches aren't infecting other students. Want to make up your own rules for how your kids are raised? Fine. Do it at home.
Posted on 2/6/15 at 11:10 am to cokebottleag
quote:
Look, I am all for local school districts, pediatricians, day care centers, etc. all requiring vaccinations for attendees. But the principle of this is the federal government should not be telling parents how to raise their kids, including things like vaccinations.
No one is telling them they have to. But it's going to get to a point where it's going to become essential for locations where they interact in venues such as schools, even public ones. And last I checked most states require students to at the very least receive some kind of instruction. So parents may have to start home schooling their children as a result if they want that "freedom".
This post was edited on 2/6/15 at 11:11 am
Posted on 2/6/15 at 11:13 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
No one is telling them they have to. But it's going to get to a point where it's going to become essential for locations where they interact in venues such as schools, even public ones. And last I checked most states require students to at the very least receive some kind of instruction. So parents may have to start home schooling their children as a result if they want that "freedom".
Freedom is about the ability to make choices, not the ability to avoid the consequences of those choices.
Posted on 2/6/15 at 11:39 am to Duke
quote:
It needs to.be required to put kids in school. Can't be endangering other kids. If you don't want to vaccinate, home school them.
Exactly.
At-risk kids shouldn't be needlessly put at risk because of a few nutjobs.
This post was edited on 2/6/15 at 11:41 am
Posted on 2/6/15 at 2:01 pm to UMTigerRebel
quote:
My issue is that the anti-vaccine people have had the luxury of herd immunity to make those decisions with relatively small risk, and because of that, they're the reason that herd immunity is starting to crack.
quote:
Freedom is about the ability to make choices, not the ability to avoid the consequences of those choices.
These two points hit it right on the head. And it's not the immigrants. With the exception of 2013, Mexico has a higher rate of vaccination against Measles than the US and by a decent bit according to this data. (Though admittedly that's probably not the easiest thing to measure)
And even in the US, it's not poor people who 'don't have access to healthcare.' It's the people who think they know more than they actually do about it because they read a Jenny McCarthy article one time or their friend posted something on facebook about the 'additives' etc. It's a simple lack of a basic understanding of science and common sense.
This post was edited on 2/6/15 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 2/6/15 at 2:03 pm to TMDawg
Posted on 2/6/15 at 2:08 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
But I'm a parent, and I'll be damned if you get to tell me how to raise my kid.
The government already tells you how to raise your kids. The list of things mandated of parents by the state is extensive, and many of them involve far more frivolous things than endangering the health of third parties.
quote:
If the government can say what my kid gets as far as vaccinations, then the government gets to say what I can feed my child.
The government already does this. Try feeding your child hash brownies or giving your toddler a sippy cup of Crown and see what happens.
This post was edited on 2/6/15 at 2:09 pm
Posted on 2/6/15 at 2:14 pm to Roger Klarvin
Wonder how long it'll take to track down the host who spread it originally...
Posted on 2/6/15 at 2:28 pm to TMDawg
quote:
These two points hit it right on the head. And it's not the immigrants. With the exception of 2013, Mexico has a higher rate of vaccination against Measles than the US and by a decent bit according to this data. (Though admittedly that's probably not the easiest thing to measure)
They're an easy target, but the LA Times put out an article that touches briefly on vaccination rates in some of the wealthier areas.
LINK
quote:
The Disneyland outbreak continues to draw scrutiny to anti-vaccination sentiments in California, where the rate of personal-belief vaccination exemptions at kindergartens with at least 10 students doubled to 3.1% in 2013 from 1.5% in 2007. That increase was driven largely by parents in wealthier school districts, many of which have fewer than 92% of kindergarteners immunized.
quote:
In the Santa Monica-Malibu Unified School District, for instance, nearly 15% of students last year were not vaccinated; that number has now dropped to 11.5%, school officials say.
Posted on 2/6/15 at 2:30 pm to TMDawg
My sister's little girl was killed by a vaccination (DPT) so Penn & Teller can shove it up their collective arse.
Posted on 2/6/15 at 2:33 pm to GoldenDawg
And my grandmother had an infant daughter die from a shot of penicillin because she was allergic. Does that mean we shouldn't use penicillin?
Posted on 2/6/15 at 2:40 pm to UMTigerRebel
Of course not. But seeing as there really is a risk for some who could lose a perfectly healthy little girl because they are forced to vaccinate, a little choice may be a good thing.
Now feel free to go back to shouting and name calling.
Now feel free to go back to shouting and name calling.
Posted on 2/6/15 at 2:43 pm to GoldenDawg
I'm pretty sure the death and disability rates from the diseases you're vaccinating against is greater than deaths from the vaccines themselves.
Sorry for the loss.
Sorry for the loss.
Posted on 2/6/15 at 2:45 pm to GoldenDawg
Nothing is completely without risk. It's tragic her little girl died. The risk for ADEs is low, but it's 100% when it happens to you.
That being said, it's hard to argue that vaccines have been the main reason many diseases have become eradicated or brought down to very manageable levels.
It also perfectly within your rights to not vaccinate, but be prepared to face the consequences of not being granted admittance into places like daycares and schools that require them.
That being said, it's hard to argue that vaccines have been the main reason many diseases have become eradicated or brought down to very manageable levels.
It also perfectly within your rights to not vaccinate, but be prepared to face the consequences of not being granted admittance into places like daycares and schools that require them.
Posted on 2/6/15 at 2:48 pm to BluegrassBelle
There are certainly public policy considerations, but it goes both ways. Forcing parents to have their kids injected, knowing some healthy kids are going to die (or worse), can also be seen as something against public policy.
I don't have the answer, but it is not as simple a question as some are making it out to be.
I don't have the answer, but it is not as simple a question as some are making it out to be.
Posted on 2/6/15 at 2:49 pm to GoldenDawg
quote:
My sister's little girl was killed by a vaccination (DPT)
And every year kids die from reactions to peanuts, latex, aspirin and penicillin.
Statistically, you are more likely to get attacked by a shark than you are to have an anaphylactic reaction to a vaccine.
This post was edited on 2/6/15 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 2/6/15 at 2:54 pm to GoldenDawg
quote:
There are certainly public policy considerations, but it goes both ways. Forcing parents to have their kids injected, knowing some healthy kids are going to die (or worse), can also be seen as something against public policy.
They're not being forced to. They can choose to go somewhere that doesn't require vaccinations. It sounds like you want to force places to accept children who don't receive vaccinations.
This post was edited on 2/6/15 at 2:55 pm
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