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re: More racial tension in Columbia
Posted on 9/28/16 at 6:30 pm to Zou brownmajic
Posted on 9/28/16 at 6:30 pm to Zou brownmajic
I really don't understand the bustle. Name Calling is not a reason to blow up. Yes, it happened. Yes, I disagree with it. But it isn't a big deal. Freedom of speech is a right for EVERYONE, even racists. University doesn't need to make a big deal out of this like they are. Release a statement saying, " we do not condone the language reported. However, we also recognize freedom of speech is very important. Here are some resources if you would like to discuss what happened."
Bam. Done. This is literally namecalling. Do I need to retroactively report every person who called me a name during my time at mizzou? Retroactively have degrees stripped?
Because that is the direction we are heading.
Bam. Done. This is literally namecalling. Do I need to retroactively report every person who called me a name during my time at mizzou? Retroactively have degrees stripped?
Because that is the direction we are heading.
3
Posted on 9/28/16 at 6:41 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
I really don't understand the bustle. Name Calling is not a reason to blow up. Yes, it happened. Yes, I disagree with it. But it isn't a big deal. Freedom of speech is a right for EVERYONE, even racists. University doesn't need to make a big deal out of this like they are. Release a statement saying, " we do not condone the language reported. However, we also recognize freedom of speech is very important. Here are some resources if you would like to discuss what happened."
Oh yeah, that'll go over well.
OU squashed their racist frat like a bug. Let's hope Mizzou does the same.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 6:43 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
Freedom of speech is a right for EVERYONE, even racists.
Umm, calling someone a **** is unnecessary and unacceptable.
Saying stuff like that isn't about free speech, it's about maintaining a modicum of respect as others go about their day.
If you were walking by a black fraternity and they called you a whip cracking honky, would you be pissed?
You should be, because it's wrong.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 6:46 pm to 5thTiger
Yes. Defend racial slurs under the guise of freedom of speech.
That's a splendid idea!
The university is doing PRECISELY what they should be doing and what they should have done the first time.
If you have to get upset about something get upset at the pussies who reported it.
That's a splendid idea!
The university is doing PRECISELY what they should be doing and what they should have done the first time.
If you have to get upset about something get upset at the pussies who reported it.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 7:19 pm to Stir of Echoes
quote:
If you were walking by a black fraternity and they called you a whip cracking honky, would you be pissed?
Similar instances happened multiple times to me during undergrad. I laughed it off. I didn't know them, so I didn't care what they said, or frankly thought about me. If kids can't learn about brushing off namecalling now, I shudder to think what their adult lives will be like outside the university.
The University SHOULD be about exposing students to different views of life, even if they are deplorable. You can't simply wipe away things you don't agree with or don't like.
Notice, I am not defending the alleged comments themselves, but rather their RIGHT to say them.
Voltaire has one of the best quotes of all time: "I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It"- (few changes based upon translations).
Posted on 9/28/16 at 7:30 pm to 5thTiger
Please, please stop the freedom of speech argument. My God people, do you not understand the 1st amendment? If the polixe areested them or if a government agent took action against them, then the 1st amendment applies. They are being punished for a morality code which says the fraternity will refrain from actions and language deemed offensive and abusive. Similar to the clauses on Facebook and Twitter.
The 1st amendment protects us from government interference or abuses associated with our speech. It does not protect us from employers or private institutions. The 3 football players had their 1st amendment rights violated not bu the fans who called for their lynching, but by the Governor who advocated a punishment.
The 1st amendment protects us from government interference or abuses associated with our speech. It does not protect us from employers or private institutions. The 3 football players had their 1st amendment rights violated not bu the fans who called for their lynching, but by the Governor who advocated a punishment.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 7:39 pm to surgicalvenom
and I simply disagree with the measures taken against them. The University should not prohibit or censor ANY language.
"Morality" becomes a very slippery slope, especially when based upon feelings. I could take offense to LITERALLY anything. Someone mentioning grandparents for instance, because mine are dead.
It is counter intuitive for the University to police speech, no matter how deplorable, racist, hateful, etc. it may be.
Also, it stands to mention that the University is a PUBLIC institution, not private.
It also stands to reason that the group who reported the incident also threw their fair share of insults. Otherwise, (I'm guessing) there would not have been an altercation.
"Morality" becomes a very slippery slope, especially when based upon feelings. I could take offense to LITERALLY anything. Someone mentioning grandparents for instance, because mine are dead.
It is counter intuitive for the University to police speech, no matter how deplorable, racist, hateful, etc. it may be.
Also, it stands to mention that the University is a PUBLIC institution, not private.
It also stands to reason that the group who reported the incident also threw their fair share of insults. Otherwise, (I'm guessing) there would not have been an altercation.
This post was edited on 9/28/16 at 7:41 pm
Posted on 9/28/16 at 7:41 pm to 5thTiger
I understand your point. But I'm guessing racism, use of racial slurs and other pejoratives are prohibited by the university student code, as well as the fraternity's code of conduct. Now, DU shouldn't close the house over the actions of a few members. That's what the temporary suspension and investigation is for.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 7:43 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
The University SHOULD be about exposing students to different views of life, even if they are deplorable. You can't simply wipe away things you don't agree with or don't like.
When you arrive in the real world after college, saying crazy shite like that gets you fired, and most likely unable to get another job.
If university life is about preparing you for a job, and the real world, that makes it unacceptable speech.
Free Speech is great, in a forum of ideas. Speaking to someone like an a-hole isn't covered by free speech. That's why in the real world, it isn't acceptable. We're all people and deserve to be treated as such.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 7:58 pm to Stir of Echoes
quote:
When you arrive in the real world after college, saying crazy shite like that gets you fired, and most likely unable to get another job.
Perhaps, but it is also common place to be criticized in an unflattering manner, so my sentiment remains. In some industries, it is commonplace, see music or art. Some businesses are openly racist.
quote:
Speaking to someone like an a-hole isn't covered by free speech
That is simply false. Short of threatening to harm someone, it is fair game.
quote:
That's why in the real world, it isn't acceptable. We're all people and deserve to be treated as such.
I don't know what circles you are around, but that isn't reality for me, or frankly anyone that I know personally.
For instance, without knowing these people, I'll call the fraternity members involved racist idiots who won't amount to anything. I'll also call the group who reported it pansy arse snowflakes.
This happens regularly, if not daily in my life.
All that aside, preventing certain speech only stifles growth and learning. You can't learn to defeat something if you haven't come across it.
To that end, I'll link an excellent clip from President Obama. Don't Shut Down Speech
Posted on 9/28/16 at 8:04 pm to 5thTiger
So calling someone a **** in college teaches them how to deal with failure and criticism in the real world?
Sorry bud, you're an idiot.
Sorry bud, you're an idiot.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 8:18 pm to Stir of Echoes
Stir you make good points. No one is stifling their freedom of speech. They are free to spew all the racial epithets they want. But there are also real world consequences for doing so. One might be that they can spew their hatred and ignorance but not as a mizzou student or as a member of a fraternity.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 8:43 pm to 5thTiger
You are just so far out of touch here I'm not even sure where to start.
I'll instead just simply say, you are wrong. No, the university should not go out of its way to protect racial slurs. Thankfully they are not, and thankfully they won't. It's that simple. I'm really not sure how this could possibly bother anybody.
I understand being aggravated by the SKW, safe space seekers. I am as well, but saying the university should come out and protect racial slurs citing the first amendment is one of the most moronic things I've ever read.
I'll instead just simply say, you are wrong. No, the university should not go out of its way to protect racial slurs. Thankfully they are not, and thankfully they won't. It's that simple. I'm really not sure how this could possibly bother anybody.
I understand being aggravated by the SKW, safe space seekers. I am as well, but saying the university should come out and protect racial slurs citing the first amendment is one of the most moronic things I've ever read.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 9:10 pm to JesusQuintana
I perused the student handbook online, specifically the code of conduct. Other than the standard language against racial discrimination, nothing specifically addresses the use of racial or other slurs or perjoratives. The description of how the incident unfolded makes me think they could find a way to call it a code of conduct violation under harassment or bullying.
I agree with free speech. People have the right to say what they want to say. But the constitution doesn't protect them from all consequences.
I agree with free speech. People have the right to say what they want to say. But the constitution doesn't protect them from all consequences.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 9:18 pm to JesusQuintana
quote:
slurs under the guise of freedom of speech.
There's no one defending racial slurs.
It's just stupid to make it (calling someone a name) into an issue escalating to anything other than an eye roll.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 9:20 pm to semotruman
quote:
People have the right to say what they want to say. But the constitution doesn't protect them from all consequences.
So if a black student calls another black student the same name, they face the same punishment?
If a black student calls a white student a "cracker" is anyone seriously arguing that they would face discipline from the university?
Posted on 9/28/16 at 9:22 pm to the808bass
We should all agree, there's no place for it.
Either way. Whoever says it.
We're playing LSU this week, I'm not getting caught up in this shite again.
Not now, not ever again.
M-I-Z
Either way. Whoever says it.
We're playing LSU this week, I'm not getting caught up in this shite again.
Not now, not ever again.
M-I-Z
Posted on 9/28/16 at 9:22 pm to surgicalvenom
quote:
The 1st amendment protects us from government interference or abuses associated with our speech.
Is Mizzou part of the government?
Posted on 9/28/16 at 9:22 pm to JesusQuintana
quote:
You are just so far out of touch here I'm not even sure where to start.
I'll instead just simply say, you are wrong
I guess you can start by realizing my point, which is one of philosophy. In my view, the University should not regulate any speech, which is what they are currently doing.
quote:
No, the university should not go out of its way to protect racial slurs
It isn't going out of the way. Going out of their way would mean adding some sort of policy to allow it, which of course, they wouldn't (see First Amendment). Realize that I am not saying condone it, as they should not. Just as the University should host speakers who hold opposing views. They can fully embrace the speech without agreeing with it. You seem to be under the impression that by allowing (or failing to punish) that they somehow would need to agree with the racist ideology/statement.
quote:
I'm really not sure how this could possibly bother anybody.
It bothers me, because there is a terrifying trend to shut down and silence speech that certain segments of the population do not agree with. If that doesn't terrify you, it should. It is how innovation is halted, beneficial academic discussions cease to exist, and lead to a general decay of society as we know it.
quote:
saying the university should come out and protect racial slurs citing the first amendment is one of the most moronic things I've ever read.
I ask how it would be moronic? Do not mistake my difference in philosophy for ignorance or stupidity. (ironically, would indeed be moronic).
Some of the greatest advances have come on the back of offensive ideas/behavior (at the time).
quote:
It's just stupid to make it (calling someone a name) into an issue escalating to anything other than an eye roll.
Couldn't agree more. This post was edited on 9/28/16 at 9:27 pm
Posted on 9/28/16 at 9:36 pm to the808bass
quote:
There's no one defending racial slurs.
Sure there was
quote:
It's just stupid to make it (calling someone a name) into an issue escalating to anything other than an eye roll.
In a perfect world. Sure, but that's not our current climate. Have to have a little bit of awareness and use some common sense. Unlike the way the prior situation was handled.
Again, if anything get angry at the words hurt pussies. The university is doing what it has to do. Doesn't really matter who likes it, because I guarantee those who don't are going to like it even less if it's allowed to escalate.
I don't care if the university issued a statement. It's a silly thing to be bothered by.
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