Started By
Message
re: More racial tension in Columbia
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:12 pm to JesusQuintana
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:12 pm to JesusQuintana
Your mom?
2
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:14 pm to the808bass
It's not a bad way to go through life to be honest.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:16 pm to JesusQuintana
quote:
"I don't condone what was said, but I'll fight for the right to say it" fricking why?
It is one of critical pillars to our entire democracy. James Madison was brilliant.
quote:
The guy is not going to be arrested.
But they will be punished, likely expelled. Something I believe is inappropriate (and also excessive, considering it is highly likely the other group threw their own insults).
quote:
At some point, you all are going to have to realize you're doing nearly as much damage to the university as the protesters and for what?
I disagree. Should the University take the University of Chicago (also, uber liberal) approach, I believe we (the University, its alumni, and all the people it serves) would be better off.
quote:
You will find that we expect members of our community to be engaged in rigorous debate, discussion and even disagreement. At times this may challenge you and even cause discomfort. Our commitment to academic freedom means that we do not support so-called ‘trigger warnings,’ we do not cancel invited speakers because their topics might prove controversial, and we do not condone the creation of intellectual ‘safe spaces’ where individuals can retreat from ideas and perspectives at odds with their own.
The minute you start regulating speech is the minute you put a limit on what can be achieved.
This post was edited on 9/28/16 at 10:21 pm
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:24 pm to the808bass
quote:
Do you advocate for equal punishment for all students using racial epithets?
I think that if there is any action taken, it would have to be a violation of the student code of conduct - which is there for both individual students and student organizations. In my mind, that's why investigating the incident is so important. Whatever happened turned into an incident big enough for the police to be called and cell phones to be whipped out to video the entire mess. So, looking into it seems reasonable to me.
As I understand it, nothing illegal happened, except perhaps disturbing the peace. Not sure if any tickets were written, but it didn't sound like any arrests were made. So, other than some saber rattling, the only recourse would be to file a complaint based on violations of the code of conduct. From my quick look at it, maybe harassment or bullying might apply - was it bad enough that the girls felt threatened or unsafe. Then, they'd explore it and issue a ruling.
My guess is this doesn't happen. I would guess the people involved will simply write a release, take it to social media and stage a protest. The university and/or the fraternity may issue some punishments - more likely the fraternity. DU will put the chapter on probation, if that's warranted, and likely make them do some volunteering and sponsor a workshop on diversity and combatting racism.
No one thinks it's OK to yell racial slurs at people walking down the sidewalk, minding their own business. It's rude, stupid behavior. It's not what we want to see at Mizzou, or anywhere else.
I will add - if this escalated and there was bad behavior on both sides, which I expect was the case - if there is any "punishment" people need to be treated equally.
This post was edited on 9/28/16 at 10:27 pm
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:25 pm to Zou brownmajic
He's how the saying goes today:
Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will trigger me to call the police, find a safe space and call a campus wide meeting to mourn that my ears had to hear ignorant words from a person that means nothing to me and I'd likely never interact with again in daily life.
Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will trigger me to call the police, find a safe space and call a campus wide meeting to mourn that my ears had to hear ignorant words from a person that means nothing to me and I'd likely never interact with again in daily life.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:28 pm to 5thTiger
I understand what you are saying. I fundamentally agree with your thought process.
In this particular instance though, I do not think you are applying it correctly but beyond that (and of the most importance here) you are ignoring mitigating factors here which would make your course of action extremely damaging. Issues are rarely, if ever, black and white. Extenuating circumstances and context must always be accounted for and applied to a LOGICAL response.
In this particular instance though, I do not think you are applying it correctly but beyond that (and of the most importance here) you are ignoring mitigating factors here which would make your course of action extremely damaging. Issues are rarely, if ever, black and white. Extenuating circumstances and context must always be accounted for and applied to a LOGICAL response.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:30 pm to JesusQuintana
quote:
"I don't condone what was said, but I'll fight for the right to say it"
Here's the thing. As far as I can tell none of you have fought for anything in your lives. None of you have ever had their arse put on the line, none of you have ever had to face the true meaning of a brother.
I, me personally, not any of you, served, so Kaepernick can do whatever the frick he wants. Because you know what, the world is a fricked up place, and there are those who don't get the same treatment you or I do.
I also reserve the right to say that it is fricked up to call someone that's walking down the street a ****. I served for some fricked up policies, and a bunch of other bullshite, but I didn't serve for that bullshite to be acceptable.
So frick you if you wanna pussyfoot around it. It's fricking wrong, I hope the university deals with it, and I hope those uneducated frickheads have learned their lesson.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:34 pm to Stir of Echoes
quote:
So frick you if you wanna pussyfoot around it. It's fricking wrong, I hope the university deals with it, and I hope those uneducated frickheads have learned their lesson.
It is morally wrong. If the university decides it would like to punish all racial epithets similarly, I would be completely supportive of it. Unequal justice based upon prevailing popular sentiment was kinda the whole point of the Civil Rights movement. And I'm not intent on regression.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:36 pm to JesusQuintana
quote:
you are ignoring mitigating factors here which would make your course of action extremely damaging
Only if you cave later. The University of Chicago has been lauded by plenty, and there haven't been any major instances reported. Setting a standard that you will not limit speech would not have negative consequences, and if it did, our country is in serious trouble.
quote:
Issues are rarely, if ever, black and white. Extenuating circumstances and context must always be accounted for and applied to a LOGICAL response.
Freedom of speech is pretty black and white. The only logical response that is consistent would be what I suggested earlier. Otherwise, you are picking and choosing what is, and is not okay. That isn't logical. Sometimes, it won't be popular. But I guarantee this would be. Anyone opposed to it would be against free speech. That is the strongest leg to stand on in our entire country.
quote:
I didn't serve for that bull shite to be acceptable.
that "bull shite" is the very basis of our founding. Freedom of Speech includes the "bull shite".
This post was edited on 9/28/16 at 10:41 pm
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:42 pm to the808bass
Unfortunately, for the sake of our argument, we aren't privy to other similar situations in regards to race because of the media and their love of the "big story".
I'd like to think, that if a black fraternity had done something similar it would be treated in the same manner.
I'd like to think, that if a black fraternity had done something similar it would be treated in the same manner.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:47 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
It bothers me, because there is a terrifying trend to shut down and silence speech that certain segments of the population do not agree with. If that doesn't terrify you, it should. It is how innovation is halted, beneficial academic discussions cease to exist, and lead to a general decay of society as we know it.
Free speech has never been unfettered. Beyond that, no one is shutting down their right to say what they want. But at the same time, for as long as I've lived, there have been consequences to nearly everything I say, good or bad. That's all this is.
Does any of that mean that this should be blown out of proportion and made into a bigger deal than it is? Not in my opinion. There was no need for the school to make a public comment on it. Handle it per your own rules and regulations just like you would any other case and be done with it. Whether that means expulsion, a slap on the wrist or nothing at all.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:48 pm to Stir of Echoes
quote:
I'd like to think, that if a black fraternity had done something similar it would be treated in the same manner.
The very existence of "black fraternities" (or any minority only organizations) suggests it wouldn't.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:49 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
Freedom of Speech includes the "bull shite
It's certainly does. Freedom of Speech also means I can think that it's a fricked up thing to do to someone.
Semantics are semantics, it's fricked up.
Walk around tomorrow calling every black person you see a **** and then use your argument as a reason for it.
At the very least, you'd get home and feel like a real a-hole.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:52 pm to the808bass
quote:
ETA: If I say it's Colin Kaepernick's right to protest during the anthem, am I condoning his protest or defending it? Or am I simply noting he has the right to protest?
I agree with your point but I would go a step further and I'd say that the 49'ers have the right to cut him if they thought it was appropriate. Doesn't mean I agree with cutting him, but they could, just like the school can take whatever steps with regards to these racists.
In fact, I think it was the Mariners just suspended some backup catcher for making comments on social media about the protesters. He had the right to say them. They had the right to suspend him. BTW - I suspect that guy just threw his MLB career down the tubes and no one will pick him up as a backup catcher.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:55 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
No, but I am a First Amendment absolutist. It seems those critical of my point don't understand the concept of how limiting speech is a detriment to societal progress.
quote:
but I assure you I am just fine. Law School
Then you should also understand that the freedom of speech is not absolute. Having said that, I don't disagree with you that they have the right to state their racist beliefs. Do you agree that if your boss is black and you call him the N word that he can fire you? That's not restricting your right to say it. It's just a consequence of your action.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:57 pm to reedus23
quote:
like the school can take whatever steps with regards to these racists.
A private institution would seem to have more latitude to do "whatever they wanted." A state institution is a little more of a sticky wicket, IMO.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:57 pm to JesusQuintana
quote:
"I don't condone what was said, but I'll fight for the right to say it"
quote:
He doesn't need a bunch of conservatives white knighting for his right to call someone a ****.
That's actually a pretty liberal philosophy and the same argument used to defend the right to burn the flag. I'm betting 808 is voting Hillary.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 10:57 pm to reedus23
I'm not voting for any of those Sons of Bitches running for President. You take that back.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 11:00 pm to the808bass
quote:
Do you advocate for equal punishment for all students using racial epithets?
If the school sees fit, yep.
Can defend the right to take the action without agreeing with the action itself. Kind of like defending the right to say racist things without agreeing with them.
Posted on 9/28/16 at 11:02 pm to the808bass
quote:
Now who is willfully obese?
quote:
Your mom?
Damn. Now we've gone a little too far.
Page 4 of 7
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News