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re: Game Rewatch

Posted on 10/23/17 at 11:28 am to
Posted by VaBamaMan
North AL
Member since Apr 2013
7653 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 11:28 am to
Im not even saying he is a bad QB, I am saying he needs to crisp up.

I will say this, the first drive at beginning of the second half was much better, and it was because we decided to let him throw routes in the middle of the field, under 15 yards. 95% of the completions in the middle of the field this year have been 15+ yards. Everything short has been outside the hashes. I thought that drive was the best one we had all day.
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 11:30 am to
quote:

I will say this, the first drive at beginning of the second half was much better, and it was because we decided to let him throw routes in the middle of the field, under 15 yards. 95% of the completions in the middle of the field this year have been 15+ yards. Everything short has been outside the hashes. I thought that drive was the best one we had all day.


Yea that was a great drive. Daboll was on fire that drive, too.
Posted by VaBamaMan
North AL
Member since Apr 2013
7653 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 11:34 am to
quote:

a couple of times Ridley has been upset at a bad pass means that EVERY game this year, Ridley has been visibly upset? Okay. Furthermore, that sounds like a Ridley problem, not a Hurts problem. You don't see Hurts pitching a fit when Ridley, Sims, Foster, etc drop passes that should have been caught.


It is a Ridley problem, I'm not excusing him one bit. He is starting to remind me of DJ Hall.

But his antics have happened in more than 1 game.

quote:

Like I said, if you can link me to these "outright ducks" then that'd be great. You can focus all you want on his 3 or 4 off throws, instead of his 13 other really good throws, but then you might run the risk of giving Hurts too much fair praise.


I don't magically have a way to edit the game footage and post the exact throws. Sorry bub.

As far as things go, I don't talk a ton, but I generally know how to take off my crimson glasses. I'm not even slightly suggesting Tua needs to start. I'm saying Hurts needs to show the ability to throw that everyone was raving about in the off-season. We all know he has it in him, he flashes it, but isn't throwing the ball consistently well enough right now to guarantee a win against the best teams in the country.
This post was edited on 10/23/17 at 11:37 am
Posted by CrimsonBoz
Member since Sep 2014
16995 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 11:39 am to
quote:

It is a Ridley problem, I'm not excusing him one bit. He is starting to remind me of DJ Hall. But his antics have happened in more than 1 game.


This is exactly what I’ve been trying to say, it’s gone from head shaking to pushing other teammates. It needs to be put in check.
Posted by Funky Tide 8
Tittleman's Crest
Member since Feb 2009
52687 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 11:43 am to
quote:

I don't magically have a way to edit the game footage and post the exact throws. Sorry bub.




It doesn't take editing game footage, or magic to do this



quote:

I'm saying Hurts needs to show the ability to throw that everyone was raving about in the off-season.


and I am saying that he absolutely did that against a top 10 ranked secondary in the nation on Saturday. The numbers don't lie man. It wasn't a bunch of behind the line long gainers. It was throws over the middle, down the seam, to the sidelines, etc. It happened. All in basically two quarters.

Yet, people are gleaming over the backup's play when he was directly responsible for the opponent's only points. I thought that Tua looked good besides that one play, but if Jalen had have done that, people would be calling for his head.


That's why I am having trouble comprehending all of the negativity. It just does not make any sense to me.




Posted by Huddie Leadbetter
Member since May 2016
3822 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 11:45 am to
quote:

Sauron


I read, but didn't even join the discussion in this thread till the 3rd page, and this was my comment, in response to other comments about Ridley...

"Ridley has been obviously frustrated lately and it's understandabe imo. edit: And he's the guy most balls are thrown to. Imagine how the other receivers feel."

This is my 2nd contribution to this thread, which is fairly innocuous unless somebody is looking for an argument...

"I think you have to put it in context. Most years, you probably wouldn't hear any UA fans complaining about Hurts. We're in the middle, though, or perhaps near the end of an unprecedented run, and with the best players in college football, and I think most fans are like me and hope that we can take advantage of this, because none of us, even the young fans, are likely to ever witness this again. So some of us feel like we are winning in spite of the lack of a balanced offense, and we think that with a balanced offense, we'd have won another title last year. Moreover, we are concerned that the lack of a balanced offense will again cost us another title, so we're missing out on what could have been, in spite of the best players assembled on one team in college football. Meanwhile, we have a qb on the bench that has shown he can run this offense, and run it well, and be a more consistent passer, and make good decisions, check down to receivers. A balanced offense.

It isn't that Jalen Hurts is a bad qb. He's a good qb. Some of us just want an excellent qb and we feel like we have that guy, and don't want him to transfer out."

My 3rd comment was in response to more discussion about Ridley. You will notice that I haven't yet responded in kind to any provocation...

"See, I've been saying this for weeks, and was told I was wrong. I see, though, that even the most vocal guy telling me that has decided there is, in fact, a problem."

Those are simple observations about the topic. comments in no way invited personal attacks. Ad hominem attacks are generally from pissed off people that can't validly or reasonably debate or discuss an issue, so they resort to attacking the other guy. I'm not even going to say that it's generally ignorant people that have to resort to that.

There are a contingent of posters on this board that don't do well with opinions contrary to their own, especially on this topic.

An Alabama fan? In my opinion, it's the Jalen Hurts fanboys that seem to prefer one guy over the team. Last year I was called a Barnett fan. This year I'm called a Tua fan, who by the way appears to be wayyy better than Blake Barnett. Better too, imo, than Jalen Hurts, but bottom linek, I don't give a flying leap about the number on the jersey. I just want what's best for the team, and I think a balanced offense, with a consistent passing game, is that.

Your post was mostly reasonable, and thank you for that. As I am pretty opinionated, though, I'll probably not acquiesce to those posters that would like me to shut up because it isn't what they want to hear. It's a message board. Everybody isn't going to agree on every subject or topic. It isn't even a huge deal except for those that make it so.






Posted by Huddie Leadbetter
Member since May 2016
3822 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 11:50 am to
quote:

As far as things go, I don't talk a ton, but I generally know how to take off my crimson glasses. I'm not even slightly suggesting Tua needs to start. I'm saying Hurts needs to show the ability to throw that everyone was raving about in the off-season. We all know he has it in him, he flashes it, but isn't throwing the ball consistently well enough right now to guarantee a win against the best teams in the country.


And that's it in a nutshell and what I've been saying for over a year now. He's inconsistent. He can make the plays, but he can't consistently make the plays, and honestly, I don't think he's ever going to be consistent. Reading defenses and checking down to secondary receivers are more issues.

At best, by this point he's had time to improve more than he's shown. The other qb seems better. My opinion.

edit: And for those for whom you have to spell it out, over and over, I've already said I don't think Tua is yet ready to start, but he's looking better and better with more playing time.
This post was edited on 10/23/17 at 11:58 am
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 11:52 am to
quote:

and I am saying that he absolutely did that against a top 10 ranked secondary in the nation on Saturday.


Tennessee isn't terrible at pass defense but they are not a Top 10 pass defense.

Their "yards per game" passing is really good because they played the following teams (rank # is Pass Yards Per Game)

102. Florida
110. Georgia
129. Georgia Tech
1AA. Indiana State

They've had the 4th fewest pass attempts against in D1 (153) (22 per game). As a contrast, Alabama has had 251 pass attempts against (32 per game).

They are 69th in YPA against and 75th in pass efficiency against.
This post was edited on 10/23/17 at 11:55 am
Posted by Funky Tide 8
Tittleman's Crest
Member since Feb 2009
52687 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 11:58 am to
quote:


Tennessee isn't terrible at pass defense but they are not a Top 10 pass defense.

Their "yards per game" passing is really good because they played the following teams (rank # is Pass Yards Per Game)

102. Florida
110. Georgia
129. Georgia Tech
1AA. Indiana State

They've had the 4th fewest pass attempts against in D1 (153) (22 per game). As a contrast, Alabama has had 251 pass attempts against (32 per game).

They are 69th in YPA against and 75th in pass efficiency against.


That's make sense. However, my point was that he had a good day passing against a decent to good passing defense. I figured some stat cruncher such as yourself was going to refute my "top ten passing defense" statement at some point
Posted by imraged
Member since Nov 2010
2343 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 11:59 am to
quote:

You didn't pay attention. Just one example, on the aforementioned wr screen, he skipped a ball to Ridley on a WR screen, and timed it so badly that if he had thrown it correctly it might have been a pick six.


Think you're conflating a couple of different plays.

Nothing wrong with timing or placement here. Devonta Smith's block gets blown up and Ridley is forced to retreat a bit.

Here's the other screen. Obviously a bad throw.

He follows it up with a play I've repeatedly been told he can't make. Stands in the pocket, goes through his progressions, fires a laser over a LB and underneath the safety.

I'm sure there were complaints about this one. It's hard to tell from the broadcast angle exactly what's going on but rather than run himself into three defenders I'm sure Jeudy should be settling down here.

This was probably his worst sequence of plays this season. Holds onto the ball when Ridley is wide open only to throw a risky pass. And then turns around and puts the ball up for grabs again the very next throw.
Posted by SummerOfGeorge
Member since Jul 2013
102699 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 12:01 pm to
quote:

I figured some stat cruncher such as yourself was going to refute my "top ten passing defense" statement at some point




Posted by VaBamaMan
North AL
Member since Apr 2013
7653 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 12:02 pm to
quote:

and I am saying that he absolutely did that against a top 10 ranked secondary in the nation on Saturday.


Do you know part of why they are top 10?

Before Saturday, Alabama had given up 129 completions. Tennessee opponents had only ATTEMPTED 120 total passes.

That helps their stats immensely.

quote:

doesn't take editing game footage, or magic to do this


So I need to rewatch the game and then post the time stamp of the throws?

quote:

Yet, people are gleaming over the backup's play when he was directly responsible for the opponent's only points. I thought that Tua looked good besides that one play, but if Jalen had have done that, people would be calling for his head.


I'm not calling for Tua, I'm simply stating Hurts needs to improve his consistency as a passer.

Though I did simply recognize the difference in the offensive playcalling when Tua is in the game. The route tree is different, more aggressive, and we allow Tua to throw down the field more often.

Just to stoke the fire though...Tua has a 4% higher completion percentage, 1.17 higher yards-per-attempt, and his passer rating is 178.2 to Jalen's 148.3.

And Tua hasn't exclusively been playing against backups either, he has played against other team's starters far more than most of y'all realize. Other teams don't automatically put in backups just because we do.

Edit: My dad is rewatching the game, had him text him some time stamps for bad throws and Ridley's frustration. On the same drive, Jalen threw two horrible passes on WR screens. At 8:40 and 6:40 in the second quarter. The 6:40 one is where Ridley throws his arms up.

It's the drive we got a break on the hands to the face negating a touchback.
This post was edited on 10/23/17 at 12:07 pm
Posted by paul02085
Shelby, Al (Lay Lake)
Member since Sep 2006
1325 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 12:18 pm to
I have noticed receivers being pissed (not just Ridley). Imo our offense looks more forced when jalen is in.
Not a knock on jalen. Just my opinion
Posted by KareemAbdul
Member since Dec 2012
1728 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 12:19 pm to
quote:

Yet, people are gleaming over the backup's play when he was directly responsible for the opponent's only points. I thought that Tua looked good besides that one play, but if Jalen had have done that, people would be calling for his head.


That's why I am having trouble comprehending all of the negativity. It just does not make any sense to me.


Let me try to explain it for you. Jalen looked real rough when he first took snaps in a real game. He literally fumbled and lost the ball on his first play. The smart Alabama fans said "He is a true freshman and growing pains happen." He has been a starter for 1.5 seasons now and it is okay to criticize him for being an average at best passer. He had a rough few drives on Saturday. I don't remember any throw that was super difficult. Tua throwing an interception when he barely gets time is okay. He will have growing pains. Our offensive identify changes with Tua as well. Interceptions happen and that's okay, but give a back up true freshman the same respect we gave Jalen for the first half of the season last year.

We have the best two QB's in our conference on our roster. They have different strengths and it is okay to have a favorite. Jalen's lack of giving up turnovers is the most important trait he has though. The defense and run game are solid enough that Jalen can throw 100 yards in a big game and still win.

Posted by Funky Tide 8
Tittleman's Crest
Member since Feb 2009
52687 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 12:24 pm to
quote:

Jalen looked real rough when he first took snaps in a real game. He literally fumbled and lost the ball on his first play. The smart Alabama fans said "He is a true freshman and growing pains happen." He has been a starter for 1.5 seasons now and it is okay to criticize him for being an average at best passer. He had a rough few drives on Saturday. I don't remember any throw that was super difficult. Tua throwing an interception when he barely gets time is okay. He will have growing pains. Our offensive identify changes with Tua as well. Interceptions happen and that's okay, but give a back up true freshman the same respect we gave Jalen for the first half of the season last year.


I get all of this, and I am not trying to dog Tua for throwing a pick six. Believe me, I think that Tua is the real deal.

I just don't see how this game plays into the narrative that Jalen is a bad passer, particularly in contrast to Tua, when in reality Hurts had a good day passing the football, and Tua made a bad mistake that resulted in a 14 point swing for UT.
Posted by VaBamaMan
North AL
Member since Apr 2013
7653 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 12:43 pm to
quote:

get all of this, and I am not trying to dog Tua for throwing a pick six. Believe me, I think that Tua is the real deal.

I just don't see how this game plays into the narrative that Jalen is a bad passer, particularly in contrast to Tua, when in reality Hurts had a good day passing the football, and Tua made a bad mistake that resulted in a 14 point swing for UT.


It's also about recognizing a QB's ball location, ability to throw a guy open vs throwing to an open guy, hitting a guy in stride, accuracy...etc.

Hurts can do it, he absolutely can, and we all know it. But he has to do it more often. Has too.

So far, in all of those things, Tua has looked better. He simply has. His ball flight is better, he hits guys in stride far more than Hurts, throws guys open....etc.

And yes he did throw a bad int that cost us the shutout, but most freshmen will throw far more ints than he has given the same amount of playing time.

I have a challenge for you, go back and watch the Tennessee game. Tell me how many of Hurts' completions hit guys in stride, and how many of them the WR had to adjust to the ball or stop his route to catch the ball.

Once again, I'm not calling for Tua, I'm wanting Hurts to do what we all know he can. He as all the talent in the world, but needs to allow himself to get into a groove throwing the ball. He is so calm, that he almost plays too slow, and waits to make sure guys are open instead of throwing it when he should.
This post was edited on 10/23/17 at 12:49 pm
Posted by Bamadoc
Mississippi
Member since Jan 2014
3985 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 12:50 pm to
Watching the replay now. I love it when jalen throws in the middle, short or long I think that's his best, most comfortable throw.

I get nervous on those short out type routes.

So I hope we throw more of those middle type and kind of phase those others out. What say yall in the know?

I still think we are holding half of our plays close to the chest until needed. Like some of the run calls for jalen and such.

Just a suggestion, can we get some type of confirmation on Ridley before we go off on his character. Him and Jalen may have a close relationship and that's how they talk. Maybe ridley pushed juedy because he was complaining in the huddle about being open . Who knows for certain. Ridley is one of us, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

Edit type not time
This post was edited on 10/23/17 at 1:06 pm
Posted by UhOhOreo
Los Angeles
Member since Jul 2014
1776 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 12:55 pm to
Jalens most comfortable throw seems to be along the sidelines less than 10 yards. That's his highest volume and completion percentage. On a fair portion of middle of the field throws he has to roll out.
Posted by Teague
The Shoals, AL
Member since Aug 2007
21692 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 1:11 pm to
quote:

Jalens most comfortable throw seems to be along the sidelines less than 10 yards. That's his highest volume and completion percentage.


I don't think it's coincidence that most of those routes involve a receiver standing still.
Posted by BamaWins15
Member since Sep 2015
4612 posts
Posted on 10/23/17 at 1:14 pm to
two things:

1. Jalen is a superb athlete. His weakness - throwing the ball downfield.

2. He's our guy - we need him to be more consistent

BONUS:
Tue is a stud as well...we are blessed to have these two at Bama - carry on!
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