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re: 5* RB Lorenzo Lingard to Miami
Posted on 3/7/17 at 9:18 pm to Crowknowsbest
Posted on 3/7/17 at 9:18 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:
Our OL didn't have many stars
Our OL had one and he was playing backup, or out of position for most of the year.
The others were three stars with no starts and one DII. Maybe one four star here.
With no backups, either. Because we only had six on scholarship when McElwain stepped on campus.
0
Posted on 3/8/17 at 4:31 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Unless the stars were wrong.
They were. This was proven when you tried to compare starting ol talent with some faulty math. The ol and recruiting rankings prove you wrong and we upgraded big time in this class.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 4:38 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 4:33 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
And the experience was benign.
Experience has its limits. It doesn't make a not good player become good as you seem to think. Caleb Brantley proved that this past year.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 7:59 am to djsdawg
Moving along. In 10 years as an FBS-level offensive coordinator and head coach, McElwain has only had one starting QB that he recruited out of high school. That was AJ McCarron, who Mac coached for one season in 2011.
his QBs:
2007 - Fresno St - Brandstater
2008 - Alabama - John Parker Wilson
2009-10 - Alabama - Greg McElroy
2011 - Alabama - AJ McCarron
2012-2014 - Colorado St - Garrett Grayson
2015 - UF - Grier/Harris
2016 - UF - Del Rio/Appleby
Wow. Add in the fact the Nuss sucks and I can see why we have trouble getting elite QBs. Hell the top QB that we can get in Milton doesn't have an offer from us. No wonder Mac can't recruit the position.
his QBs:
2007 - Fresno St - Brandstater
2008 - Alabama - John Parker Wilson
2009-10 - Alabama - Greg McElroy
2011 - Alabama - AJ McCarron
2012-2014 - Colorado St - Garrett Grayson
2015 - UF - Grier/Harris
2016 - UF - Del Rio/Appleby
Wow. Add in the fact the Nuss sucks and I can see why we have trouble getting elite QBs. Hell the top QB that we can get in Milton doesn't have an offer from us. No wonder Mac can't recruit the position.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 8:34 am to atlgator
quote:
Don't know how you can say there hasn't been improvement
Ranking:
Before Mac got here we finished the year unranked two years in a row and were one year removed from a 4 win season
25th after year one
14th after year two
Recruiting Ranking:
2015- 20th
2016- 12th
2017- 10th
Where in this is there any indication that Mac is in over his head?
19-8 Overall
13-3 SEC league play
Yep Mac sucks, TJ was right all along just like Avatar is better than Star Wars
Posted on 3/8/17 at 9:10 am to TJGator1215
12-2 with John Parker Wilson, SECCG appearance
24-3 with Greg McElroy, National Champion
12-1 with AJ McCarron, National Champion
22-16 with Garrett Grayson, however 10-2 after year 3 and he took over one of the worst programs in college football
6-0 with Will Grier, SECCG appearance
4-4 with Treon Harris, SECCG appearance
2-1 with LDR, SECCG appearance
7-3 with Appleby, SECCG appearance
24-3 with Greg McElroy, National Champion
12-1 with AJ McCarron, National Champion
22-16 with Garrett Grayson, however 10-2 after year 3 and he took over one of the worst programs in college football
6-0 with Will Grier, SECCG appearance
4-4 with Treon Harris, SECCG appearance
2-1 with LDR, SECCG appearance
7-3 with Appleby, SECCG appearance
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:06 am to atlgator
Records don't tell the whole story. Most of Mac's wins here were do to an NFL loaded defense. It does show he's good at winning with other coaches players. Outside of Bama, Mac's teams have beat up on cupcakes and have been destroyed by good teams at both UF and CSU. He's never won a conference title as a HC.Nick Saban is the straw the stirs the drink at Bama. He's won 4 NCs with 3 different OCs. Larry Coker and Gene Chizik won NCs they're bad HCs. Mac can't recruit the position he's a supposed guru of.that's bad. Do you know who Nussmeiers most succesfull recruit is? LDR.
Boy you're gonna be pissed when he's fired right before the facilities upgrades break ground.
His wins have come against a overall opponents W-L average of below .500. He's a mid level coach.
Boy you're gonna be pissed when he's fired right before the facilities upgrades break ground.
His wins have come against a overall opponents W-L average of below .500. He's a mid level coach.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 11:29 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:25 am to TJGator1215
quote:
McElwain has only had one starting QB that he recruited out of high school. That was AJ McCarron, who Mac coached for one season in 2011.
quote:
2011 - Alabama - AJ McCarron
Ole sunburn McButterteeth is batting 100% on recruiting NC winning QBs out of HS.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:27 am to BloodSweat&Beers
It's more to do with the HC and NFL talent around the QB more than the QB himself.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:30 am to atlgator
I know this wasn't directed at me, but just was going to point out a couple of things.
We've been down this road already. Yes, the 4 win season was awful. The 7-5 season in 2014 though was not remarkably dissimilar from the 10-4 season in 2015. You essentially eked out some wins against Kentucky, Vandy, and even FAU, then replaced Alabama with Ole Miss for your rotating west (of course saw Bama in the SECCG. Your rent-a-win in 2014 was also canceled to start the season. It's improvement to be sure, but the concern I might have in your shoes is that the increased wins are coming on the back of your defense, not really offensive improvement. I think you're in a very telling year in 17 because this should answer the question of what does Mac do with a QB... can he get one ready. I think the answer is "probably"... he hasn't done anything to lead me to believe he absolutely can't do it, but it's still a bit of wait and see.
Covered this earlier as well. Using the class ranking can be a bit misleading due to volume of incoming recruits and relative class sizes. Take a look a few pages back where I broke down avg. recruit ranking... that is probably the metric that would be most concerning regarding Mac's recruiting ability. You're going to have to count on him being a better talent evaluator than the recruiting sites and other coaches... it's definitely possible, but he is heavily weighting the classes with 3* kids. See 2013 class at UGA. Decent ranking, poor avg recruit score... end result not many meaningful contributors.
Again, I'm not saying he's "failing"... but as a recruiter, simply getting a top 10 class this year doesn't tell me he's making significant improvements, since the avg rating isn't improving significantly.
Also not a big deal, just noticed this, but 247 has UF at 11th this year rather than 10th... did someone jump you guys with a late add?
quote:
Before Mac got here we finished the year unranked two years in a row and were one year removed from a 4 win season
We've been down this road already. Yes, the 4 win season was awful. The 7-5 season in 2014 though was not remarkably dissimilar from the 10-4 season in 2015. You essentially eked out some wins against Kentucky, Vandy, and even FAU, then replaced Alabama with Ole Miss for your rotating west (of course saw Bama in the SECCG. Your rent-a-win in 2014 was also canceled to start the season. It's improvement to be sure, but the concern I might have in your shoes is that the increased wins are coming on the back of your defense, not really offensive improvement. I think you're in a very telling year in 17 because this should answer the question of what does Mac do with a QB... can he get one ready. I think the answer is "probably"... he hasn't done anything to lead me to believe he absolutely can't do it, but it's still a bit of wait and see.
quote:
Recruiting Ranking:
2015- 20th Avg rating 87.21
2016- 12th Avg rating 88.73
2017- 10th Avg rating 88.97
Covered this earlier as well. Using the class ranking can be a bit misleading due to volume of incoming recruits and relative class sizes. Take a look a few pages back where I broke down avg. recruit ranking... that is probably the metric that would be most concerning regarding Mac's recruiting ability. You're going to have to count on him being a better talent evaluator than the recruiting sites and other coaches... it's definitely possible, but he is heavily weighting the classes with 3* kids. See 2013 class at UGA. Decent ranking, poor avg recruit score... end result not many meaningful contributors.
Again, I'm not saying he's "failing"... but as a recruiter, simply getting a top 10 class this year doesn't tell me he's making significant improvements, since the avg rating isn't improving significantly.
Also not a big deal, just noticed this, but 247 has UF at 11th this year rather than 10th... did someone jump you guys with a late add?
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 11:53 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:59 am to fibonaccisquared
quote:
I broke down avg. recruit ranking... that is probably the metric that would be most concerning regarding Mac's recruiting ability. You're going to have to count on him being a better talent evaluator than the recruiting sites and other coaches... it's definitely possible, but he is heavily weighting the classes with 3* kids. See 2013 class at UGA. Decent ranking, poor avg recruit score... end result not many meaningful contributors.
This is a good point.
I think UF under Mac has done a great job at evaluating. Especially in the So Fl.
Great example is the freshman LBs from last year against LSU. When the starters got hurt in the prior weeks, they were able to step up and limit LSU's running game.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 12:23 pm to BloodSweat&Beers
LSU ran for over 200 yards. I wouldn't call that limiting.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 1:40 pm to TJGator1215
quote:
Records don't tell the whole story
Yes, they kind of do. You win or you lose. Mac has won a lot. Period.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 1:44 pm to atlgator
No they don't. It's how you look while you win or lose that counts as well. It shows how well coaches do their jobs. Mac has looked bad at both. He sneaks out with wins and gets boat raced in losses. That's not good. You'll see this year when an Nfl talented defense can't bail out his 3* roster.
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 1:46 pm
Posted on 3/8/17 at 1:47 pm to atlgator
quote:
they kind of do. You win or you lose. Mac has won a lot. Period.
Maybe For a simple mind who doesn't want to dig into the details.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 1:58 pm to TJGator1215
quote:
LSU ran for over 200 yards. I wouldn't call that limiting.
10 points.
45 attempts. 19 for 83 by Guice and 12 for 40 for Fournette. That is limiting. A WR was the second leading rusher with 51 on 3 attempts.
You were also limited. Disappeared like Kizer Soze after that game I thank the UF LBs for that.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 3:35 pm to BloodSweat&Beers
quote:
I think UF under Mac has done a great job at evaluating. Especially in the So Fl.
Great example is the freshman LBs from last year against LSU. When the starters got hurt in the prior weeks, they were able to step up and limit LSU's running game.
I'd largely agree that it looks like he's done a decent job, but it's also deceiving to use a small handful of games to say that the freshmen are definitely of the same caliber as what Muschamp had been bringing in. They were still surrounded by NFL caliber DL and DBs... It will be interesting to see how the defense trends as the Muschamp recruits go away... (this should be the last year with many of them anyways, other than RS Sr, right?)
The defense did give up a ton of yards in the LSU game (400+), but the redzone defense looked good. The tricky thing about using LSU as a measuring stick there though is that they only had the 75th ranked redzone offense all year. While the UF game certainly contributed, they just weren't a great offensive team due to being somewhat one dimensional.
A&M was only 55th. Arkansas was 100. Iowa was the best of the teams you faced late in the year at 34, but that's because they *had* to be efficient... they were ranked 121 in total offense.
Not to say these stats are the be all end all... stats can be used to tell different stories, but those were just the first 2 things I thought to look at when you said that the Freshman LB play was indicative of good evaluation... measure against the offenses they played.
Again, I don't think it's a "sky is falling" situation, but the avg recruit ranking has to be a little concerning if it doesn't start trending up. Particularly given *how good* the state of Florida is at producing elite talent (and Georgia, which traditionally UF has recruited at least the southern half well). UGA was able to make some improvements there under Kirby, so it's encouraging, but now it's time to see that reflect in on-field performance.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 7:13 pm to djsdawg
I think Tom Luginbill hits the nail on the head pretty much here:
“Some of the criticisms of McElwain's were a little bit premature. I never quite bought into that,” said Tom Luginbill, ESPN’s national recruiting director. “With this particular class, I really like it from top to bottom, particularly in the defensive secondary where they have needs.
“And overall, I think Jim McElwain has actually recruited pretty well at Florida considering some guys that have already made an impact.”
Recruits from his first two classes have played extensively and been productive, with more than half (13) of the 2016 signees playing in 10 or more games last season and combining for 31 starts. His 2015 signees have started 100 total games.
“I don’t think there’s anyone who would debate that he hasn’t made Florida’s roster extremely talented,” Luginbill said. “You don’t get to Atlanta two years in a row with as poor a quarterback play as they’ve had without having really good players in some other spots. Their freshman class last year had receiver Tyrie Cleveland and Jawaan Taylor on the offensive line. Lamical Perine was a pleasant surprise at the running back spot.
“I know people are clamoring for an answer at quarterback, and obviously they need one. In the last two full classes for Jim McElwain, he’s brought in three quarterbacks. Two of them he was able to redshirt in Kyle Trask and Feleipe Franks. Now he’s going to bring in Jake Allen this year. We’ll see what happens at the quarterback spot, because it’s funny how that just magically makes everything better.”
“Some of the criticisms of McElwain's were a little bit premature. I never quite bought into that,” said Tom Luginbill, ESPN’s national recruiting director. “With this particular class, I really like it from top to bottom, particularly in the defensive secondary where they have needs.
“And overall, I think Jim McElwain has actually recruited pretty well at Florida considering some guys that have already made an impact.”
Recruits from his first two classes have played extensively and been productive, with more than half (13) of the 2016 signees playing in 10 or more games last season and combining for 31 starts. His 2015 signees have started 100 total games.
“I don’t think there’s anyone who would debate that he hasn’t made Florida’s roster extremely talented,” Luginbill said. “You don’t get to Atlanta two years in a row with as poor a quarterback play as they’ve had without having really good players in some other spots. Their freshman class last year had receiver Tyrie Cleveland and Jawaan Taylor on the offensive line. Lamical Perine was a pleasant surprise at the running back spot.
“I know people are clamoring for an answer at quarterback, and obviously they need one. In the last two full classes for Jim McElwain, he’s brought in three quarterbacks. Two of them he was able to redshirt in Kyle Trask and Feleipe Franks. Now he’s going to bring in Jake Allen this year. We’ll see what happens at the quarterback spot, because it’s funny how that just magically makes everything better.”
Posted on 3/8/17 at 7:21 pm to TJGator1215
My opinion is this: we are talented and proven enough to compete for the East and win it under Mac at every position except quarterback. We are talented enough to compete for the SEC Championship and a spot in the playoff if we have good quarterback play.
This is Florida. The defense has been good every year with the exception of 2007 for the past 20 years. I'm not worried about the defense. They may have some growing pains next year, but they are going to be fine. I'm concerned with the offense. There's no doubt that our OL has improved under Mac. No doubt our WRs have improved. We have maintained talent at RB, if not slightly improved it. Our tight ends haven't changed much, I'd like to see them get better. Maybe Gamble will live up to his #1 TE in Florida and four star ranking. The quarterback position has been stuck in neutral since Grier got busted for roids. If he were still here the confidence int next years team would be sky high. Despite the unexpected QB turnover, Mac was able to scrap together a couple of SECCG births. He had to play two guys that were brought in to be depth guys. Guys we never wanted to have to let play. And despite that, we've still made conference championships.
The buck stops this fall for Mac. His guys, Franks and Trask, better play good this year. They better show signs of progression. That's the biggest, most important position for UF to figure it out at.
This is Florida. The defense has been good every year with the exception of 2007 for the past 20 years. I'm not worried about the defense. They may have some growing pains next year, but they are going to be fine. I'm concerned with the offense. There's no doubt that our OL has improved under Mac. No doubt our WRs have improved. We have maintained talent at RB, if not slightly improved it. Our tight ends haven't changed much, I'd like to see them get better. Maybe Gamble will live up to his #1 TE in Florida and four star ranking. The quarterback position has been stuck in neutral since Grier got busted for roids. If he were still here the confidence int next years team would be sky high. Despite the unexpected QB turnover, Mac was able to scrap together a couple of SECCG births. He had to play two guys that were brought in to be depth guys. Guys we never wanted to have to let play. And despite that, we've still made conference championships.
The buck stops this fall for Mac. His guys, Franks and Trask, better play good this year. They better show signs of progression. That's the biggest, most important position for UF to figure it out at.
Posted on 3/9/17 at 7:41 am to atlgator
Agreed.
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