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re: Would Bama have won as much or more with Manziel at QB instead of McCarron?
Posted on 6/20/15 at 7:59 pm to G2160
Posted on 6/20/15 at 7:59 pm to G2160
quote:
i haven't argued that on this thread, or any other. what i objected to, was your previous post:
And I proved that to be true.
He put up huge numbers against crappy teams, struggled against better defenses where the unorganized play doesn't work as well(just like the pros), and then used the Alabama game to hype everything else up.
That doesn't mean he was like the worse QB ever or anything, but that is what happened.
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Posted on 6/20/15 at 8:29 pm to 3down10
quote:
And I proved that to be true.
He put up huge numbers against crappy teams, struggled against better defenses where the unorganized play doesn't work as well
up next on sports center, a new study finds that a qb's stats are generally inversely proportional to the quality of defenses they face, we'll have details after the break.
quote:
(just like the pros)
this conversation is not, and has not, been about the pros. we have been speaking specifically about his 2012 season.
also, regarding your "he didn't have good games against better defenses like bama, but the game he won agaisnt bama moved him to the front of the heisman list" argument, here is his stat line from that game:
24/31 (77%) for 253, 2 TDs, 0 ints passing
18 carries for 92 yards rushing
he did not have a good game agasint florida, in the first game of the new program, and he didn't have a good game agasint lsu. he was phenomenal in all of the other games he played in.
This post was edited on 6/20/15 at 8:35 pm
Posted on 6/20/15 at 9:32 pm to CrimsonFever
I don't think Manziel would have tolerated Nick spanking him. So, no, the relationship would have been like oil and water which equals less wins.
Posted on 6/20/15 at 10:08 pm to CrimsonFever
quote:
don't think so.
Then you don't understand cfb. McCarron was never one of the top 5 players on any of his bama teams and Johnny basically carried those A&M teams. If Johnny played bad,A&M wasn't gonna win. AJ could played bad and Bama could win.
Posted on 6/20/15 at 10:17 pm to IAmReality
quote:
Alabama wouldn't have won any titles with Manziel, his style is not reliable, he could easily go out and throw 4 INT's and lose you the game.
Holy shite. Is that why Johnny has a higher career compl%, higher career qb rating,and higher career yards per attempt.
There are no individual statistics that point to AJ being a better cfb qb than JM. Only TEAM accomplishments.
Posted on 6/20/15 at 10:24 pm to 3down10
quote:
Oh please, the Heisman trophy is 90% hype and it was perfect for Manziel because he was also 90% hype.
All hype? his 2012 season set the sec single season yards record and his 2013 season is ranked #2 in sec single season yards
Posted on 6/20/15 at 10:32 pm to 3down10
quote:
30 TDs and 3 INTs all year.
You get those stats by never having to force a throw because your defense is great and your offense isn't relying on you to win games single handedly. JM was A&M's offense. During his time at A&M johnny had 1 teammate run for more than 550 yards.
Posted on 6/20/15 at 10:34 pm to 3down10
quote:
but he was not the superman some of you try to make him out to be.
Holy shite. He has the 1st and 2nd best sec single season in yards and he only played 2 seasons. That's not hype. That's legendary.deal with it.
Posted on 6/20/15 at 10:50 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
Holy shite. He has the 1st and 2nd best sec single season in yards and he only played 2 seasons. That's not hype. That's legendary.deal with it.
A stat which could have been accomplished by many QB's in the SEC over the years if their coaches had decided to leave them in games they had huge leads in.
Posted on 6/20/15 at 10:53 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
You get those stats by never having to force a throw because your defense is great and your offense isn't relying on you to win games single handedly. JM was A&M's offense. During his time at A&M johnny had 1 teammate run for more than 550 yards.
Don't disagree with this.
Posted on 6/20/15 at 10:57 pm to 3down10
quote:
stat which could have been accomplished by many QB's in the SEC over the years if their coaches had decided to leave them in games they had huge leads in.
bullshite. His yards per attempt is high as well which dispels the notion. AJ'S td/in ratio would've been far worse if he had to be the focal point of an offense. Again,AJ was never even the 5th best offensive player on any of his bama teams while JM was A&M's offense.
In 2012 A&M was 2nd in the nation in yards per play and in 2013 they were 5th in yards per play. Yards per play isn't skewed by top or the amount of plays you ran.
This post was edited on 6/20/15 at 11:02 pm
Posted on 6/20/15 at 11:14 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
bullshite. His yards per attempt is high as well which dispels the notion. AJ'S td/in ratio would've been far worse if he had to be the focal point of an offense. Again,AJ was never even the 5th best offensive player on any of his bama teams while JM was A&M's offense.
In 2012 A&M was 2nd in the nation in yards per play and in 2013 they were 5th in yards per play. Yards per play isn't skewed by top or the amount of plays you ran.
If you don't think AJ was the focal point of the Alabama offense, then you are silly. The QB is almost always the focal point.
In 2013 he also finished 2nd in the heisman. Which I'm told is apparently a big deal.
Posted on 6/20/15 at 11:31 pm to 3down10
quote:
If you don't think AJ was the focal point of the Alabama offense, then you are silly. The QB is almost always the focal point.
Holy shite. You clearly don't understand football. At no point was AJ even close to being bama's best offensive player. At no point was AJ McCarron your focal point. In 4 years AJ threw for 260 yards or more 6 times. There are no individual statistics that show AJ being a better qb than JM.
It's laughable that AJ was voted 2nd in the Heisman in 2013. Hell Zack Mettenburger threw for more yards, had a higher yards per attempt, and had a higher qb rating than AJ in 2013.
This post was edited on 6/20/15 at 11:36 pm
Posted on 6/21/15 at 2:08 am to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
Holy shite. You clearly don't understand football. At no point was AJ even close to being bama's best offensive player. At no point was AJ McCarron your focal point. In 4 years AJ threw for 260 yards or more 6 times. There are no individual statistics that show AJ being a better qb than JM.
It's laughable that AJ was voted 2nd in the Heisman in 2013. Hell Zack Mettenburger threw for more yards, had a higher yards per attempt, and had a higher qb rating than AJ in 2013.
You don't have to be the best player to be the focal point. He is the QB, he is almost the focal point of every play by default. The exception would be a team like Alabama in 2009.
You claim A&M has a bad game if Johnny Manziel doesn't play well. Well the only loss Alabama had that year was to A&M and it was the game where his only 2 interceptions of the regular season came.
So obviously, it doesn't matter if he plays well or not. Basically because he's a damn QB and it matters on every damn team.
Posted on 6/21/15 at 7:20 am to 3down10
quote:
You claim A&M has a bad game if Johnny Manziel doesn't play well. Well the only loss Alabama had that year was to A&M and it was the game where his only 2 interceptions of the regular season came
Only someone who doesn't understand football would call Johnny Manziel all hype(as far as cfb). He played 2 years and has the 1st and 2nd greatest single season in sec history. And don't give me that bullshite about him being left in and that's the only reason. I showed you that A&M finished top 5 both year in yards per play.
Posted on 6/21/15 at 9:24 am to CrimsonFever
No. Given JFF's propensity to ad lib Nick would have either killed him or himself. Oil and water don't mix.
Posted on 6/21/15 at 10:58 am to CrimsonFever
quote:If Manziel had been at Florida, Muschamp would have benched him for Driskel or moved him to TE. Manziel would have transferred after a year. Or he would have torn his ACL in practice doing something benign like wind sprints, due to Jeff Dillman's ineptitude as a S&C coach.
I don't think so.
A Florida fan asked me a couple of years ago right after Bama had won two NCs in a row if I'd trade McCarron for Manziel for the upcoming season and I said of course not.
He went on to tell me how crazy I was and he brought it up again today.
Posted on 6/21/15 at 5:08 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
Only someone who doesn't understand football would call Johnny Manziel all hype(as far as cfb). He played 2 years and has the 1st and 2nd greatest single season in sec history. And don't give me that bullshite about him being left in and that's the only reason. I showed you that A&M finished top 5 both year in yards per play.
He was left in. I showed you the stats of what he did against bad teams. Putting up 5 and 6 TDs against 2 FCS schools in the same year is a text book example of stat padding.
7 total TDs against the top 5 teams he faced. 7 total. Barely more than 1 TD per game.
Meanwhile, for the other 7 games? 36 TDs. For an average of basically 5 TD's per game.
That is a huge difference and you can ignore that all you want. But to me, it was no surprise he failed hard in the NFL because it was clear all along that he struggles against real defenses.
Yeah, it happens with all players to a degree. But in the end, the stats you mention depend largely on if the coach is willing to leave their starters in for that long. A&M did leave them in longer than other teams.
There have been lots of QB's that Manziel "beat" for those records who simply did not play as long because the team cares about the scoreboard, not individual QB awards.
It's not like I think he was a bad QB. But if that ain't a hype up record, then I don't know what is.
This post was edited on 6/21/15 at 5:09 pm
Posted on 6/21/15 at 6:10 pm to CrimsonFever
McCarron is perfect fit for their offense. I'm not sure Manziel would have been able to execute offensive game plan as well as him. JMO. On the other side McCarron wouldn't fit in aTm's offense.
Posted on 6/21/15 at 6:50 pm to 3down10
So do think it's a good idea for a coach to get a freshman qb as many reps as he can? Heading into sec play? Discussing football with you is fun.
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