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re: Will "the God thing" start to get challenged on legal grounds?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:47 pm to DawgsLife
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:47 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
And there are many that would stamp out religion altogether. What is your point?
Ive never met or heard from an atheist/agnostic who wanted to strip away the freedom to practice whatever religion you wanted.
Now, many wish to systematically lessen the impact of religion on society through education, but nobody is advocating for legislation making christianity or islam or judaism illegal.
The fact remains that A LOT of American christians advocate for legislation that forces their beliefs and morality on others in a society founded upon the idea that that shouldnt happen. The two situations just arent the same.
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Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:48 pm to Greenfloridan
quote:
No I wouldn't be fine with that. But I'm fine if a coach teaches about God, becoause God isn't satan and there is a huge difference in teaching good vs evil. That's just a dumb question.
Surely you see the implications of this if carried about to its logical conclusion, right?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:50 pm to Lg
quote:
So how many Christians would play for this coach? Probably none, so really all that would, would be muslims or non-believers that would soon HAVE to convert to Islam. So having an Imam come speak really wouldn't offend anyone, now would it?
Er? Seriously? If Saban converted to Islam tomorrow, he's still going to pull in players left and right. The stigma attached to Islam, especially Nation of Islam-style, by white lower-to-middle class Christians is considerable more potent than that attached to it by most other segments of society. There are actually plenty of black Muslim players in college sports, after all (I believe one of your own fellow Bama fans mentioned that your team has some.) So long as there aren't exacerbating factors that make him controversial otherwise, I doubt the simple fact that the coach is Muslim will have a huge impact.
And if there are exacerbating factors, it wouldn't matter what religion he is. A Christian coach who endorses bombing abortion clinics and militia-driven separatism isn't going to get any better press than a Muslim one who endorses jihadism in Afghanistan.
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:50 pm to MIZ_COU
quote:
No but relegious groups try to force there beliefs on others constantly, to the point of trying to pass laws about it. Bunch of fukers.
And aren't you trying to force YOUR beliefs on people right now? if not, why are you giving your opinion? Trying to change minds and hearts, right? How about political people? Sports fans? EVERYBODY tries to change other peoples minds about just about everything....including television shows!
As for laws....that is the whole point of a law, is it not? not make people change behaviors?
Soemthing tells me you didn't think this one all the way through.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:52 pm to leoj
quote:
man, never knew nonbelievers were so put upon, sorry guys I'll pray that you guys finally get to do everything you want without any persecution real soon, I thought this was America?
Fixed it for you.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:53 pm to Lg
quote:
So how many Christians would play for this coach? Probably none, so really all that would, would be muslims or non-believers that would soon HAVE to convert to Islam. So having an Imam come speak really wouldn't offend anyone, now would it?
The vast majority of 17 year old high school seniors are christian in name only. Very few are going to have their future coaches religion dictate where they go play football.
You overestimate their conviction on the whole.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:53 pm to Crimson Legend
quote:
That brought back memories...20 years ago, as a low level college administrator, it was my arse if the Dean's office fridge ever ran out of Diet Coke.
A lack of coke or coffee could put an entire company out of business!
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:55 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The vast majority of 17 year old high school seniors are christian in name only. Very few are going to have their future coaches religion dictate where they go play football.
If you don't think that the perception of being a Christian program isn't advantageous to recruiting (especially with their parents), then you need to ask yourself why it is so widespread. I hope you don't believe it's because there is a natural connection between coaching football and spirituality.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:56 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Ive never met or heard from an atheist/agnostic who wanted to strip away the freedom to practice whatever religion you wanted.
Really? I have.
quote:
through education
education or legislation?
quote:
he fact remains that A LOT of American christians advocate for legislation that forces their beliefs and morality on others in a society founded upon the idea that that shouldnt happen.
How so? Don't get moral beliefs confused with religious beliefs. While somewhat connected, they are also different in many ways. What laws have been passed that forces people toward a particular religion?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:57 pm to randomways
quote:
Er? Seriously? If Saban converted to Islam tomorrow, he's still going to pull in players left and right. The stigma attached to Islam, especially Nation of Islam-style, by white lower-to-middle class Christians is considerable more potent than that attached to it by most other segments of society. There are actually plenty of black Muslim players in college sports, after all (I believe one of your own fellow Bama fans mentioned that your team has some.) So long as there aren't exacerbating factors that make him controversial otherwise, I doubt the simple fact that the coach is Muslim will have a huge impact.
And if there are exacerbating factors, it wouldn't matter what religion he is. A Christian coach who endorses bombing abortion clinics and militia-driven separatism isn't going to get any better press than a Muslim one who endorses jihadism in Afghanistan.
Understand what you are saying...but don't you think it is telling that it is not the players that are complaining, but an outside group?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:58 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The vast majority of 17 year old high school seniors are christian in name only. Very few are going to have their future coaches religion dictate where they go play football.
You overestimate their conviction on the whole.
I do tend to agree with this statement.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:00 pm to randomways
quote:
So long as there aren't exacerbating factors that make him controversial otherwise, I doubt the simple fact that the coach is Muslim will have a huge impact.
So why is a Christian coach any different?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:01 pm to Crimson Legend
quote:
If you don't think that the perception of being a Christian program isn't advantageous to recruiting (especially with their parents), then you need to ask yourself why it is so widespread. I hope you don't believe it's because there is a natural connection between coaching football and spirituality.
And herein lies the key...it matters to the parents. They want their kids to be well taken care of when they go off to school. Most kids leave home for the first time (when they go to college) and fall under a LOT of pressure to fit in. many move away from their core values because of this pressure, and some really screw up their lives.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:04 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Really? I have.
Link? And random blog posts by 20-somethings about are "atheist" because its hip dont count.
Even the most anti-religion guys Ive ever heard speak, guys like Dawkins and Hitchens, only advocated for scorn of religion but did not support legislation limiting religious freedom.
quote:
education or legislation?
Education. I see no legislation being proposed that says people cant practice whatever religion they want in America. Now, if you consider gay marriage or evolution in schools or abortion an affront to your religious freedom then I cant help you because we're talking past each other.
quote:
How so? Don't get moral beliefs confused with religious beliefs. While somewhat connected, they are also different in many ways. What laws have been passed that forces people toward a particular religion?
The only reason that gay marriage is illegal in most states is because of a society trying to impose christian morals on everyone. The same applies to pretty much every piece of legislation governing the sale of alcohol, strip clubs, sex shops, etc.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:07 pm to DawgsLife
Also, prohibition was a christian movement. Prostitution laws are have their roots in the baptist and methodist churches.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:17 pm to Roger Klarvin
not to mention liquor laws, In God We Trust and "One nation under God"
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:26 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Link?
Link? What do you mean, link? I am talking about my personal experience.
I thought you were, too. Ive never met or heard from an atheist/agnostic who wanted to strip away the freedom to practice whatever religion you wanted.
Here is what you said. Did you mean through legislation?
quote:
Education.
Kind of like the guest speaker on bullying ridiculed Christian students that walked out on his speech when he attacked Christianity?
LINK
Yes, this is a blog, but it is difficult to find the story now. it was pretty widely reported when the story first broke. It is not done through legislation as much as intimidation and ridiculing. People LOVE to make Christians feel stupid. Note how many people refer to Christianity as a fairy tale, or a myth, etc on this very board. It's pretty common, actually. Call someone black, or gay or a foreigner a name and you are brow beaten. call a Christian a nmae or ridicule his beliefs and you are somehow perceived as hip.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:29 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The only reason that gay marriage is illegal in most states is because of a society trying to impose christian morals on everyone. The same applies to pretty much every piece of legislation governing the sale of alcohol, strip clubs, sex shops, etc.
Not really. there are plenty of people out there who are NOT Christians who are against those very same things. Don't confuse moral beliefs with Christian beliefs. They may intersect sometimes, but they are different.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:35 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
alcohol, strip clubs, sex shops, etc.
Apparently you've never had to treat people with addiction. Alcoholism, drug addictions and sexual perversion are all wonderful things, aren't they? All are great contributors to society.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:35 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Also, prohibition was a christian movement. Prostitution laws are have their roots in the baptist and methodist churches.
You will find Christians who are on both sides of those issues, for varying reasons. Yes, there are Christians against Homosexual marriage (Honestly, I am one) and there are Christians that are for it. Same for drinking, and just about any other issue at hand. but these tend more on moral values rather than christian ones. Doesn't make either more any more right or wrong.
You are trying to tie all Christians up in a neat little box....but Christians are just as diverse in their opinions and beliefs as atheists and agnostics are. There are issues that many agree on and there are issues that many disagree on.
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