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re: Why do people believe Saban would have built a dynasty if he had stayed at LSU?
Posted on 11/8/16 at 10:06 am to Bench McElroy
Posted on 11/8/16 at 10:06 am to Bench McElroy
THey would have been good, no doubt. He would not have achieved what he did at Bama.
you could take John Calipari and put him as coach in Bama basketball and he would not have Kentucky success and I have no problem believing that. Part of why Saban left LSU was he knew he had a ceiling. He could have went back anytime, including right now but wouldn't He says the right stuff in the media, I enjoyed my time there, have lots of good memories blah blah but he wouldn't do it again. He won the 2003 title and probably would have won another, probably 07 he doesn't lose to UK and Arkie and won that one but I don't figure any more than those two.
When he was at LSU he had no Bama, Ole Miss or A&M to deal with and Arkie was hit or miss. State sucked all but 2000 and Florida was killing him until Spurrier left. Only Auburn, and that was not every year, was his obstacle and he still only won the SEC in 01 (with 3 losses) and 03.
If LSU was a nationally elite program they would have been so before 2000 and it would have sustained over various coaches. Saban is not the first ultra successful coach at Bama. LSU is not gonna be dominanat for any period of time and guys see that when they get the job. Hell, even Dietzel got left town for the Army job.
you could take John Calipari and put him as coach in Bama basketball and he would not have Kentucky success and I have no problem believing that. Part of why Saban left LSU was he knew he had a ceiling. He could have went back anytime, including right now but wouldn't He says the right stuff in the media, I enjoyed my time there, have lots of good memories blah blah but he wouldn't do it again. He won the 2003 title and probably would have won another, probably 07 he doesn't lose to UK and Arkie and won that one but I don't figure any more than those two.
When he was at LSU he had no Bama, Ole Miss or A&M to deal with and Arkie was hit or miss. State sucked all but 2000 and Florida was killing him until Spurrier left. Only Auburn, and that was not every year, was his obstacle and he still only won the SEC in 01 (with 3 losses) and 03.
If LSU was a nationally elite program they would have been so before 2000 and it would have sustained over various coaches. Saban is not the first ultra successful coach at Bama. LSU is not gonna be dominanat for any period of time and guys see that when they get the job. Hell, even Dietzel got left town for the Army job.
This post was edited on 11/8/16 at 10:10 am
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Posted on 11/8/16 at 10:09 am to lsufball19
quote:
I know you don't want to admit this, but the rebuilding project he inherited at LSU was much bigger than the one at Alabama
LSU in the 4 seasons before Saban got there: 26-20
Bama in the 4 seasons before Saban got there: 26-24
LSU in the decade before Saban got there: 2 coaches & 1 interim coach
Bama in the decade before Saban got there: 4 coaches & 1 interim coach
The stretch before Saban got to Bama was a really bad stretch. It was the worst stretch the program had in 50+ years. LSU wasn't build for success when Saban got there, but to act like it was a markedly more difficult rebuilding job than what he inherited at Bama is simply not accurate.
Posted on 11/8/16 at 10:10 am to Bench McElroy
Alabama is the Notre Dame of the SEC if Saban were to have never coached at Alabama.
Alabama benefits from Saban, not vice versa.
He could have done what he's doing almost anywhere.
Alabama benefits from Saban, not vice versa.
He could have done what he's doing almost anywhere.
Posted on 11/8/16 at 10:11 am to TheCaterpillar
quote:Yeah. Like buying the best players is the only shot he has.
I think Nick learned a lot with the Dolphins which has helped him.
As for the OP, LSU doesnt have the boosters that would sell their souls for players like bama.
Posted on 11/8/16 at 10:12 am to TouchdownTony
quote:
If LSU was a nationally elite program they would have been so before 2000 and it would have sustained over various coaches.
You know nothing about LSU, clearly.
It took a while for LSU to detach itself from the tentacles of LA government in terms of completing privatizing the athletic department. Emmert achieved this. LSU used to be unwilling to invest in coaches salaries and facilities. Since they have, they've been able to leverage the natural resources at their feet.
Further, and this is the underbelly that many people won't like. The 18 year old African Americans of the late 90's and 2000's were the first where they grew up where the previous generation was actually recruited to go to LSU. There were still a lot of politics in LA about LSU recruiting AAs up into the 70s, so it took a while to build the fence so to speak. Before that, the community knew of schools in the BIG10 and such. Burton Burns will tell you all about it.
I understand this is not necessarily unique to LSU, but when your greatest core competency is your in-state talent, and you don't recruit the best players in state, what do you expect?
This post was edited on 11/8/16 at 10:18 am
Posted on 11/8/16 at 10:19 am to TouchdownTony
quote:
Part of why Saban left LSU was he knew he had a ceiling
incorrect.
quote:
He could have went back anytime, including right now but wouldn't
no he couldn't have.
quote:
When he was at LSU he had no Bama, Ole Miss or A&M to deal with and Arkie was hit or miss
no, he just had Auburn, Tennessee, and Florida. Arkansas won the West in 2002. Auburn went undefeated his last year at LSU
quote:
If LSU was a nationally elite program they would have been so before 2000 and it would have sustained over various coaches
If Alabama was an elite program, why couldn't they find a coach for 10 years? And LSU wasn't as nationally relevant because it took them that long to actually start investing big money into the program. LSU was very cheap when it came to spending money on the football program. You know who changed that culture? Skip Bertman and Nick Saban
This is a completely illogical argument. Programs no longer are successful because of reputation. Look at Notre Dame, USC, etc. It flat out does not matter anymore. Successful programs are 100% resources and coaching. Alabama has been fortunate enough to land one of the greatest, if not the greatest, coaches of all time.
This post was edited on 11/8/16 at 10:21 am
Posted on 11/8/16 at 10:19 am to bamasgot13
quote:
The stretch before Saban got to Bama was a really bad stretch. It was the worst stretch the program had in 50+ years. LSU wasn't build for success when Saban got there, but to act like it was a markedly more difficult rebuilding job than what he inherited at Bama is simply not accurate.
and in that stretch, Alabama still had 1 SEC title and 3 ten win seasons.
quote:
LSU in the 4 seasons before Saban got there: 26-20
Bama in the 4 seasons before Saban got there: 26-24
LSU in the two seasons before Saban got there: 7-15
Alabama in the two seasons before Saban got there: 16-8
This post was edited on 11/8/16 at 10:26 am
Posted on 11/8/16 at 10:23 am to RollDawgRoll
quote:
Alabama made Saban great. LSU isn't Alabama.
False. Saban's name alone is a big draw for recruits.
Posted on 11/8/16 at 10:25 am to Bench McElroy
No shite, he sucks more arse than you.
Posted on 11/8/16 at 10:33 am to RollDawgRoll
Are you saying Alabama didn't hire a great coach you fricking moron?
quote:
Alabama made Saban great. LSU isn't Alabama.
Posted on 11/8/16 at 10:42 am to lsufball19
quote:
lsufball19
I can't believe we are having a discussion in which we make a case for which of our teams was worse during a given period of time.
That said, I submit the following evidence to make my case:
Under Mike Shula, Alabama was 0-15 in games in which they were tied or losing at the start of the 4th quarter. During his 4 years you just had to play us for 3 qtrs b/c we had nothing for you in the 4th (Saban changed that immediately starting with the mentality of the players by instituting the "4th Quarter Program" in the off season)
Posted on 11/8/16 at 10:44 am to Bench McElroy
There aren't as many Dodge dealerships in LA, so you're probably right.
Posted on 11/8/16 at 11:00 am to bamasgot13
quote:
Under Mike Shula, Alabama was 0-15 in games in which they were tied or losing at the start of the 4th quarter. During his 4 years you just had to play us for 3 qtrs b/c we had nothing for you in the 4th (Saban changed that immediately starting with the mentality of the players by instituting the "4th Quarter Program" in the off season)
by that same metric with Dinardo LSU was 2-19-1 when tied or losing going into the 4th quarter. The two wins were a 21 point comeback against freaking Houston in 1996 and we were tied with Florida in 1997 going into the 4th after giving up a 14 point lead. They also had 5 blown 4th quarter leads under Dinardo.
Much like the "winning culture" Saban brought to Alabama, he also brought that to LSU. And Saban was trying to rebuild about a 12 year spell of awful football, much worse than anything Alabama experienced from 2000-2006. Saban and Skip Bertman completely changed the culture in the athletic department. Skip knew, based on what he was able to do with the baseball program, that you're not going to be successful trying to penny pinch. To be successful, you had to invest. Saban and Bertman knew this. Alabama has always known this, which is why, in my opinion, it was much easier for Saban to build what he did at Alabama more quickly. They already had the culture of knowing what it takes in the modern era to compete. They just had a string of probation and some unfortunate coaching hires that put success on hold for 7 years.
This post was edited on 11/8/16 at 11:02 am
Posted on 11/8/16 at 11:12 am to CRAZY 4 LSU
quote:
Because he was just starting to establish himself in terms of gaining cache to recruit. LSU started to get Alabama like classes in 03 and 04, but he never got to develop them himself. In 05-07 Miles averaged just 2 losses a season and won a national championship. Saban would have won 2 national championships during that time period (06 &07), and at that point the thing would be rolling similarly to Alabama after 11/12.
This. Saban came into Alabama with immediate credibility because of what he did at LSU. It took him a couple of years to really get rolling, and when he did, it has been lights out ever since.
That is where LSU was positioned from 05-07 and Saban would have kept it going at LSU and LSU would be where Alabama is now. Without question.
Miles did a good job of keeping things going, but Saban is an 11-1/12-0 coach and Miles was a 9-3/10-2 coach. That is the difference.
It is all about coaching, as the previous 25 years Pre-Saban at Alabama attest. LSU would have had the same type of success.
Posted on 11/8/16 at 11:43 am to Bench McElroy
So what you're trying to say is that it's not Saban that makes Bama great, but rather Bama that makes Bama great.
That has to be the most gump thing that has been said in a long time.
Saban is arguably the greatest college coach ever. He would make nearly any team he went to great.
You dumb
That has to be the most gump thing that has been said in a long time.
Saban is arguably the greatest college coach ever. He would make nearly any team he went to great.
You dumb
Posted on 11/8/16 at 11:51 am to Bench McElroy
quote:
Why do people believe Saban would have built a dynasty if he had stayed at LSU?
I don't know anyone that does. LSU ain't Alabama, after all. Not even close, really.
Posted on 11/8/16 at 11:53 am to Bench McElroy
Now this is insecure
Posted on 11/8/16 at 12:10 pm to Bench McElroy
Bc Saban + REC = championships.
Posted on 11/8/16 at 12:19 pm to Bench McElroy
Saban would have threepeated in 2005,2006,2007
Posted on 11/8/16 at 12:23 pm to lsufball19
In his 5 years at LSU he won 2 SEC titles and 1 National title.
This was as a 49 year old coach who was hired with ZERO previous major conference or national titles under his belt
In his first 5 years at Bama he won 1 SEC and 2 national titles.
This was as a 56 year old coach who had two previous SEC titles and 1 previous national title under his belt.
If by looking at that, you deduct he wasnt going to have similar success at LSU as Bama, you dont deserve to vote
This was as a 49 year old coach who was hired with ZERO previous major conference or national titles under his belt
In his first 5 years at Bama he won 1 SEC and 2 national titles.
This was as a 56 year old coach who had two previous SEC titles and 1 previous national title under his belt.
If by looking at that, you deduct he wasnt going to have similar success at LSU as Bama, you dont deserve to vote
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