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re: The REAL issue Michael Sam raises......
Posted on 2/10/14 at 10:58 am to OBReb6
Posted on 2/10/14 at 10:58 am to OBReb6
quote:What does this even have to do with the OP? Nothing at all, from what I can tell. I don't think anyone cares or needs to know that forums poster OBReb6 thinks gay people doing it is gross.
I wouldn't treat them any differently so I don't see what the issue is. My point is that no amount of culture change will ever make me feel that it isn't disgusting. No matter how many anal bleaching spas pop up in my area
edit: BTW I think pickles, sauerkraut, and mustard are fricking horrible things that should not exist. UGH
This post was edited on 2/10/14 at 11:00 am
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Posted on 2/10/14 at 10:59 am to Rebellious
OP makes an excellent point. "Football is the ultimate man's sport," is a sentiment a lot of people agree with.
The only question is, "How do you define a man?"
It creates gender confusion and most people aren't comfortable when things can't be packaged in a nice, neat little box.
It is human nature - I believe - to associate manliness with having sex with females. Lots of them. It is also human nature to associate men with high testosterone - i.e. football players - with higher masculinity.
Football players coming out simply shows the masses that not everything can be so neatly categorized. How each individual responds to that information will vary. But basically it boils down to you can't judge a book by its cover. A very elementary lesson in life.
The only question is, "How do you define a man?"
It creates gender confusion and most people aren't comfortable when things can't be packaged in a nice, neat little box.
It is human nature - I believe - to associate manliness with having sex with females. Lots of them. It is also human nature to associate men with high testosterone - i.e. football players - with higher masculinity.
Football players coming out simply shows the masses that not everything can be so neatly categorized. How each individual responds to that information will vary. But basically it boils down to you can't judge a book by its cover. A very elementary lesson in life.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 10:59 am to Lsupimp
quote:
Personally, I can't really remember a time that it ever bothered me. I approach life with this idea that I don't ever want to have created any victims-that to victimize somebody-through ridicule for instance over his sexuality- puts me in a pretty shitty category. Also, it's not really a gay guy's responsibility to craft my emotional response to his sexuality, it's up to me how I deal with that, and when in doubt, COMPASSION is usually a good bet.
Sagely words.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:00 am to UMRealist
quote:
UMRealist
quote:
I don't condemn people for eating onions though.. that would be silly.
I know plenty of people that do condemn homosexual men for their sexuality, I suppose that is the real difference.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:00 am to Lsupimp
quote:
I don't think it's fair to really disparage their reaction or opinion to something that just makes them squeamish on a very basic level.
"Squeamishness" or "disgust" (to use one of the other words that has come up in the thread) is a reaction based on culture. There are cultures in the world where sex between men carries no stigma, so if there were some inherently natural reason for such squeamishness or disgust than you would have a point, but if there were a natural basis for it, then the reaction would be universal among all cultures and the fact is that it is not universal...
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:01 am to stat19
quote:
Bottom line is MS wants something or will want something so he's playing the victim card today in order to set that up.
Playing the victim card?
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:02 am to Hog on the Hill
I was trying to say that with me personally, and many other people, that I don't think the issue is feeling like they are sissies, but being disgusted with their behavior.
I am civil towards all humans though so I feel no guilt, and will now be leaving the thread.
I am civil towards all humans though so I feel no guilt, and will now be leaving the thread.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:04 am to MagicCityBlazer
quote:
I know plenty of people that do condemn homosexual men for their sexuality, I suppose that is the real difference.
Of course. We all know people like that. It just irks me that people think there isn't a difference between being unapproving of something and being intolerant of something.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:04 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
BTW I think pickles, sauerkraut, and mustard are fricking horrible things that should not exist. UGH
i like them all but hate sweet potatoes even tho there's nothing definitively gross about them. you can't make me like them- i've tried over and over b/c i know they are good for me but i just can't stand them. it's not a choice, it's innate.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:05 am to piggilicious
quote:WTF? I'm eating a sweet potato right now!!! They're my favorite potato
i like them all but hate sweet potatoes even tho there's nothing definitively gross about them. you can't make me like them- i've tried over and over b/c i know they are good for me but i just can't stand them. it's not a choice, it's innate.
edit: is it the sweetness? just curious. I like mine baked til really soft and then I put a little cinnamon on them.
This post was edited on 2/10/14 at 11:06 am
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:07 am to Lsupimp
quote:
There is a certain breed of man in America that does not enjoy the company of a man who would have intercourse with another man. Pretty simple really. I don't think it's fair to really disparage their reaction or opinion to something that just makes them squeamish on a very basic level.
I'll be the first to tell you that I don't like to see two guys make out, just the same as I don't like to see two ugly people, or fat people make out. That said, I have a gay extended family member and getting to know him and his gay friends has made me much more sympathetic to what they have to put up with.
The problem is when people sexualize this issue. If all someone wants to focus on is what gay people do behind closed doors, that becomes a problem. We go back to the OP and what is masculinity. I'd bet 9 out of 10 times, the same guy that condemns two gay men having sex, however they choose to do so, would get hard as a rock seeing two women go at it. It's the same damn principle, yet because it's two hot chicks, that makes it ok somehow.
I agree with what others have said that him coming out will make it much easier in the future for other gay athletes to not have to live a lie and live up to some sort of false sexualized "manhood," where you're not a man unless you want to frick every hot woman you see.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:08 am to UMRealist
quote:
Of course. We all know people like that. It just irks me that people think there isn't a difference between being unapproving of something and being intolerant of something.
I think there is a legitimate argument to be made about the ability to be "approving". I have a penchant for blonde women, perky nipples, and nibbling on ear lobes. You, Obama, the Queen of England, or any other god damn person on than the women I'm giving the best sex of her life don't have the ability to be approving of that. If you told me that while you don't condone the ways I penetrate a women's body, you just disapprove of it, I'd tell you to go frick yourself.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:09 am to TeLeFaWx
*don't approve
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:09 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
WTF? I'm eating a sweet potato right now!!! They're my favorite potato
edit: is it the sweetness? just curious. I like mine baked til really soft and then I put a little cinnamon on them.
i think it might be the slight sweetness- yes. i don't like cooked carrots either probably for the same reason. i like most salads that mix the sweet with the savory but i just can't with a sweet potato. and even weirder- they're a gorgeous veggie, i can admit that just ugh. taters gonna tate i guess.
This post was edited on 2/10/14 at 11:10 am
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:10 am to Rebellious
quote:
"Squeamishness" or "disgust" (to use one of the other words that has come up in the thread) is a reaction based on culture.
You are trying too hard to connect the dots to give some credence to your premise. Look, HETOREOSEXUAL SEX can make me squeamish. I need a certain kind of woman, I need a certain type of femininity and hygiene, or it's a deal-killer. I mean-put some hairy balls in my face-and I'm running for the hills. Cultural immersion didn't do that. Hairy balls did that.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:13 am to TeLeFaWx
quote:
If you told me that while you don't condone the ways I penetrate a women's body, you just disapprove of it, I'd tell you to go frick yourself.
As you should. As Sam should. Another's opinion, whether approving or unapproving, of what you do should never have any effect on you.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:18 am to UMRealist
quote:
As you should. As Sam should. Another's opinion, whether approving or unapproving, of what you do should never have any effect on you.
Exactly. So there is no validity to your ability to approve of someone's sexuality. Just like you can't be approving of someone's favorite color or favorite song.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:23 am to piggilicious
quote:They are really sweet and are pretty squishy and kind of slimy for a tater. They can also be kinda stringy sometimes. I can see why some might not like them, but they're a legit Top 5 Vegetable in my book. I've eaten many times my own weight in sweet potatoes over the years.
i think it might be the slight sweetness- yes. i don't like cooked carrots either probably for the same reason. i like most salads that mix the sweet with the savory but i just can't with a sweet potato. and even weirder- they're a gorgeous veggie, i can admit that just ugh. taters gonna tate i guess.
Cooked carrots aren't quite as sweet and the texture is variable depending on how long they are cooked. I like mine done about medium, so they're firm but still give easily and don't have too much crunch. Love raw carrots, too. Mushy carrots are pretty meh IMO.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:24 am to TeLeFaWx
Well I think you can have an approving or disapproving opinion of someones choice. It just doesn't mean shite in reality.
Posted on 2/10/14 at 11:25 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
Love raw carrots, too
me too, love them. i'm one that eats nearly every fruit/veggie, so the sweet potato thing is an oddity for me.
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