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re: Seahawks' Tom Cable: Spread systems do a huge disservice to offensive players
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:39 pm to piggidyphish
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:39 pm to piggidyphish
quote:I've been called worse.
Welcome to being an auburn or ole miss fan RT1941.
My only point is, screw the NFL....College football is not a damn farm league for the pro's.
These kids are playing in some type spread offense when they're in high school and on into college. A high school coaches job is to win games and try to prepare his players well enough to give them a shot at the next level. A college coaches job is to win games, and prepare his players for the college game, period.
If the college player is forutnate enough to get drafted, then the damn "professional coaches" take that player at their own risk and they mold them into a professional player.
The NFL wants to take the easy approach - they have the resources and professional staff at their fingertips.
2
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:43 pm to RT1941
quote:
I've been called worse
by better, no doubt.
quote:
College football is not a damn farm league for the pro's.
Agree. it's not as though these kids don't have a say so in where they go to college...
Posted on 5/14/15 at 12:59 pm to RT1941
Upvote sir. And if a program proves to be bad at getting players to the NFL, kids will stop committing there.
This post was edited on 5/14/15 at 1:01 pm
Posted on 5/14/15 at 1:04 pm to MustangReb
quote:
Actually, you're completely missing the implicit assumption about college level defensive players.
holy shite Posted on 5/14/15 at 1:06 pm to Chizzin ain't Easy
quote:
The players choose where they play in college. It is proven that a specific offense will not get a quarterback drafted higher than any other in regards to spread versus pro-style. Both types of quarterbacks get drafted high each year.
You're right. Doesn't change the fact that players coming out of these one read simply progression offenses are going to have a much tougher time adjusting and being successful in the league.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 1:10 pm to gatorhata9
quote:
players coming out of these one read simply progression offenses are going to have a much tougher time adjusting and being successful in the league.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 1:34 pm to piggidyphish
So the guy doesn't want to coach his players up to fit into his preferred system...oh well.
Cue the "Old Man Yells at Cloud"
Probably only eats vanilla ice cream and has never tried anything else
Cue the "Old Man Yells at Cloud"
Probably only eats vanilla ice cream and has never tried anything else
Posted on 5/14/15 at 1:37 pm to Spirit Of Aggieland
According to him, it's not about having to coach them into a new system - it's about having to teach them the very basics of the game of football.
That's a problem, IMO.
That's a problem, IMO.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 1:44 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:
That's a problem, IMO.
seriously. Why would these experts allow players lacking the very basics of the game of football to be drafted...high no less. Or are there just no players with these basics that they could take?
A problem indeed.
This post was edited on 5/14/15 at 1:45 pm
Posted on 5/14/15 at 1:52 pm to piggidyphish
Sorry Tuscaloosa but Cable is full of crap. Any coach that complains about the spread offense not teaching fundamentals has never been around a good coach that uses the spread. It's football!! It doesn't matter where the receivers line up, the goal of every offense is the same. There are plenty of bad coaches who coach nothing but pro-style offenses and get their butts kicked on a consistent basis, and vice-versa.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 1:55 pm to piggidyphish
quote:
Why would these experts allow players lacking the very basics of the game of football to be drafted...high no less.
Because the GMs know they'll eventually get coached up and their measurables are too good to pass on.
It's the position coaches and coordinators who are complaining about it. I would imagine it's a lot like being a high school teacher. These kids come to you at the beginning of the year - and they're supposed to have already learned information in previous classes to set them up to be successful in your class. Then the first day of school you give them a "test" to see how much they know, and you realize you have to go back and re-cover or start fresh with stuff they're supposed to have already learned. It slows your entire process down and you end result isn't as good as what it could have been had they been fully prepared when they entered your class.
Surely you can at least understand why these coaches are frustrated.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 2:00 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:
Because the GMs know they'll eventually get coached up and their measurables are too good to pass on.
Whew...i was afraid they didn't have a plan.
quote:
I would imagine it's a lot like being a high school teacher.
yea...or how the rest of the world lives. I guess I've just been terribly unlucky because I've had to train everyone I've supervised.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 2:00 pm to eatatjoes
quote:
Sorry Tuscaloosa but Cable is full of crap. Any coach that complains about the spread offense not teaching fundamentals has never been around a good coach that uses the spread. It's football!! It doesn't matter where the receivers line up, the goal of every offense is the same. There are plenty of bad coaches who coach nothing but pro-style offenses and get their butts kicked on a consistent basis, and vice-versa.
It's technical details of blocking, running, and reading defenses that isn't being taught according to these guys.
With those up-tempo one read offenses, you're not having to think. You just get a play and typically you have one scheme for that play. You don't have to adjust your blocking or anything if the defense lines up a different way. It doesn't require there to be any knowledge of the game at all.
quote:
There are plenty of bad coaches who coach nothing but pro-style offenses and get their butts kicked on a consistent basis, and vice-versa.
This much is true, though. But I bet most of those pro-style players have a lot more depth of knowledge about the X's and O's of football than the guys who are coming from 13-1 HUNH zone read teams.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 2:01 pm to piggidyphish
quote:
I guess I've just been terribly unlucky because I've had to train everyone I've supervised.
How much easier and how much more productive could you be if the person you're responsible for training had already done the things you were training them to do?
Posted on 5/14/15 at 2:02 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:
had already done the things you were training them to do?
then i wouldn't be training them, now would I?
So NFL demands a finished product. Sucks for them. Stop drafting them.
quote:
more productive could you be
Negligible. I still have to waste time reading this dumb shite.
This post was edited on 5/14/15 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 5/14/15 at 2:04 pm to Tuscaloosa
That might seem like an appropriate analogy, but we are talking about different coaches having different offensive philosophies, not a lack of necessary knowledge as Cable and others like him proclaim.
You mean to tell me that college coaches of both spread and pro-style offenses aren't spending the same amount of time and energy to coach up their guys? Of course they do, it's NCAA mandated and even if it wasn't almost all coaches at that level are motivated to win, so they all work their tails off to coach their guys. Some people believe in certain philosophies over others, and that's fine, but let's not pretend that spread players aren't getting coached up.
You mean to tell me that college coaches of both spread and pro-style offenses aren't spending the same amount of time and energy to coach up their guys? Of course they do, it's NCAA mandated and even if it wasn't almost all coaches at that level are motivated to win, so they all work their tails off to coach their guys. Some people believe in certain philosophies over others, and that's fine, but let's not pretend that spread players aren't getting coached up.
This post was edited on 5/14/15 at 2:07 pm
Posted on 5/14/15 at 2:25 pm to Tuscaloosa
This is why all elite offensive high school prospects should go to school at places like LSU, Bama, Georgia and even Arkansas... Get prepared for the League instead of playing in a gimmick bugs bunny offense that will ultimately harm their draft stock.
I think this is going to become a major selling point in recruiting, and I expect the pro-style systems to start to see an even bigger talent discrepancy over the next few years as word gets out that pro-style systems better prepare these kids for the pros.
I think this is going to become a major selling point in recruiting, and I expect the pro-style systems to start to see an even bigger talent discrepancy over the next few years as word gets out that pro-style systems better prepare these kids for the pros.
This post was edited on 5/14/15 at 2:35 pm
Posted on 5/14/15 at 2:28 pm to eatatjoes
You are talking about two different skill sets. Pro style and HU linemen are taught how to play different styles.
And I think Cable is bitching about the fact that there are only a set number of NFL ready linemen who are in the draft. Maybe 15-20 linemen in each draft who can come in and be ready to play on opening day. Not start, play.
And that is not enough players to go around. Then you have to draft the second group, who will take much longer to development.
So he is looking for a quicker turnaround on the teams investment.
And I think Cable is bitching about the fact that there are only a set number of NFL ready linemen who are in the draft. Maybe 15-20 linemen in each draft who can come in and be ready to play on opening day. Not start, play.
And that is not enough players to go around. Then you have to draft the second group, who will take much longer to development.
So he is looking for a quicker turnaround on the teams investment.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 2:30 pm to GeauxToBed
Saban is already using that as a selling point.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 2:33 pm to Herman Frisco
As I'm sure Les and Richt are. I guess what I'm saying is that people like Cable making statements like this bolsters that claim and makes it all-the-more effective for recruiting purposes.
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