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re: **Official Midnight Madness Thread**
Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:35 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:35 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
quote:
But I do think the random nature of the Big Dance means you can never look JUST at an individual postseason to judge a team
We're not.
Mizzou has never done better then an Elite Eight yet you're talking shite about SEC competition. Florida, Arkansas, and LSU has all done better just off the top of my head. And as late as 2006 the SEC formed at least half of the Final Four (and that's without Kentucky). We damn near did it again this year with Florida.
Now I have no problem in saying that competition is cyclic in nature in the SEC. And that our bottom teams are pretty damn awful. But you're underestimating the conference from the middle to the top.
This post was edited on 10/12/12 at 10:37 pm
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Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:36 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
The SEC has been routinely shafted in the past couple post-seasons when it comes to teams getting in the NCAA Tournament because of conferences like the Big East getting way too many in for their own good. It has also hurt the SEC that our tourney championship is played on Selection Sunday. More then once I've heard a committee member say that it didn't carry as much weight (unless a non-tourney bound team won) because of that.
What are you even talking about? The Big East has been to hoops what the SEC has been to football of late. It has been the deepest and best conference. The SEC did not get shafted at all, it just lacked depth last year. Who exactly do you feel strongly from the SEC should have been there or would have done shite when there? Bama is debatable, don't see how anyone else is. Same thing to your point about the SEC tourney final being on a Sunday. Umm Kentucky and Vandy were already IN the Big Dance. Who the hell in the SEC tourney field didn't get a fair shake because of that? Come on now.
Our OOC consisted of Notre Dame and Cal who were NCAA tourney teams. We scheduled and beat Villanova and Illinois who had been NCAA tourney teams both the prior year and for many years before that. The fact they had down years this past year is not exactly our fault or something where we were trying to pad our schedule when we agreed to play them.
And thanks for reminding me that with Baylor you actually played THREE teams from the Big 12 in the Big Dance. Funny thing huh, that such a shite league had so many teams advancing to play you? I agree that Baylor's defense wasn't the best which is what helped us beat them three times last year. Yet there they were in the Elite Eight, which to hear you guys talk validates them as being damn good and "better" than anyone who fell in the Sweet Sixteen or below. You guys want it both ways but can't have it, sorry.
Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:38 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
The Cat fans are back.
That's the one fan base you don't go after about hoops, they're way to knowledgable generally. They spend time researching all the competition and seem more informed about the opponents than its own fan base.
Quick hijack, still wished they would play 4 team tourney of UK, Nd/Purdue,/IU Carolina/Duke, and KU/Arizona one year. That would be major money maker and a prime time on CBS. Hold it in Chicago, Indy, or Louisville.
If Louisvulle would agree to it the IU ND UK UL double headers in the dome or Freedom were always fun also.
That's the one fan base you don't go after about hoops, they're way to knowledgable generally. They spend time researching all the competition and seem more informed about the opponents than its own fan base.
Quick hijack, still wished they would play 4 team tourney of UK, Nd/Purdue,/IU Carolina/Duke, and KU/Arizona one year. That would be major money maker and a prime time on CBS. Hold it in Chicago, Indy, or Louisville.
If Louisvulle would agree to it the IU ND UK UL double headers in the dome or Freedom were always fun also.
This post was edited on 10/12/12 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:40 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
quote:
I know Tennessee is emerging.
Tennessee has been better than Mizzou over the last 5-7 years.
Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:42 pm to BluegrassBelle
Belle, the discussion has been about last year's Mizzou team. Whether it was overrated or not and whether it was "as good" as the SEC.
Your post above about Mizzou's history is what I'm talking about on this double standard shite. You would never, ever, EVER come on here and say that Mizzou's 24-12 team in 2002 was better than your #1 seed Kentucky team in 2004. You wouldn't cuz we are lowly Mizzou and you are Kentucky and were a 1 seed and #1 nationally ranked team. Ours was a double digit loss piece of shite.
But guess what? that 2002 team of ours went to the Elite Eight. So by your logic it was better. Actually what you're saying isn't even that logical, your're saying that because teams like Arkansas and LSU have *in the past* at some point gone to a Final Four they were better than *last year's* Mizzou team. I mean come on listen to yourself.
All I've been saying is that last year's Mizzou team was one of the best teams in college basketball last season and that many times in any given year some of the best teams of the season get victimized by huge upsets. That's what this nation loves about the Big Dance. And I'm not about to concede that the SEC was somehow a stronger basketball league than the Big 12 from top to bottom last year, nobody in their right college basketball minds would assert that. No way jose. It had the best individual team in UK, yes. Best league or better league than the Big 12, no.
Your post above about Mizzou's history is what I'm talking about on this double standard shite. You would never, ever, EVER come on here and say that Mizzou's 24-12 team in 2002 was better than your #1 seed Kentucky team in 2004. You wouldn't cuz we are lowly Mizzou and you are Kentucky and were a 1 seed and #1 nationally ranked team. Ours was a double digit loss piece of shite.
But guess what? that 2002 team of ours went to the Elite Eight. So by your logic it was better. Actually what you're saying isn't even that logical, your're saying that because teams like Arkansas and LSU have *in the past* at some point gone to a Final Four they were better than *last year's* Mizzou team. I mean come on listen to yourself.
All I've been saying is that last year's Mizzou team was one of the best teams in college basketball last season and that many times in any given year some of the best teams of the season get victimized by huge upsets. That's what this nation loves about the Big Dance. And I'm not about to concede that the SEC was somehow a stronger basketball league than the Big 12 from top to bottom last year, nobody in their right college basketball minds would assert that. No way jose. It had the best individual team in UK, yes. Best league or better league than the Big 12, no.
Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:43 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
quote:
The Big East has been to hoops what the SEC has been to football of late. It has been the deepest and best conference. The SEC did not get shafted at all, it just lacked depth last year. Who exactly do you feel strongly from the SEC should have been there or would have done shite when there? Bama is debatable, don't see how anyone else is. Same thing to your point about the SEC tourney final being on a Sunday. Umm Kentucky and Vandy were already IN the Big Dance. Who the hell in the SEC tourney field didn't get a fair shake because of that? Come on now.
The Big East has routinely been overrated in post-season play. They get a ton of teams in because of the size of their conference and majority flame out early. Way early. Are they a good basketball conference? Sure. But most anyone could be with almost 20 teams.
quote:
Our OOC consisted of Notre Dame and Cal who were NCAA tourney teams. We scheduled and beat Villanova and Illinois who had been NCAA tourney teams both the prior year and for many years before that. The fact they had down years this past year is not exactly our fault or something where we were trying to pad our schedule when we agreed to play them.
No one said you were padding your schedule. We're just saying it wasn't the glowing resume you're making it out to be. Just look up the SOS in comparison. Big, big difference in teams that were in the Top 10 (like Louisville) and Top 30 (like Florida).
quote:
And thanks for reminding me that with Baylor you actually played THREE teams from the Big 12 in the Big Dance. Funny thing huh, that such a shite league had so many teams advancing to play you?
Yeah. Funny how they were all in our bracket, mostly by virtue of upsets that helped them get there (see Baylor and Duke, Kansas and Syracuse).
Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:46 pm to sms151t
quote:
, they're way to knowledgable generally.
They're not showing it to me tonight. Just happy to change standards and rearrange any and every stat they can to put themselves and their league in the best light. Which would make them no different than fans of any other team. But I haven't seen any of them trot out any incredibly well researched tidbits here. Just a lot of internally inconsistent assertions about what aspects of a season are most valuable, the only constant being that whatever makes UK or the SEC look best is what counts.
Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:47 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
quote:
Belle, the discussion has been about last year's Mizzou team. Whether it was overrated or not and whether it was "as good" as the SEC.
And we say overrated because they didn't play anybody all that great outside of Kansas and their seeding benefited from that. Then you want to start throwing out UAB and 2004 and accusing people in this thread of not taking into consideration a team's consistency in the post-season over multiple seasons.
Except we did that and mentioned that you all have consistently choked in the post-season in comparison to your future SEC competition. But that didn't satisfy your argument either.
So which is it?
Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:48 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
Mizzou Fan in Da ATX,
B12 last year
Iowa State lost to Kentucky by 16 in second game
Baylor lost to Kentucky by 12 in fourth game
Missouri lost to Norfolk State by 2 in first game
Kansas State lost to Syracuse by 16 in second game
Texas lost to Cincinnati by 6 in first game
Kansas lost to Kentucky by 8 in sixth game
Notice how many B12 teams were gone after second game. That tells you how padded their regular season was!
B12 last year
Iowa State lost to Kentucky by 16 in second game
Baylor lost to Kentucky by 12 in fourth game
Missouri lost to Norfolk State by 2 in first game
Kansas State lost to Syracuse by 16 in second game
Texas lost to Cincinnati by 6 in first game
Kansas lost to Kentucky by 8 in sixth game
Notice how many B12 teams were gone after second game. That tells you how padded their regular season was!
Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:50 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
You do understand MU is considered a stepchild to UK?
Wait until the season gets underway. Best way I can describe it is KState syndrome. MU and KU were the dominant forces, but the Cat fans always rolled the Jack Hartman and the Richmond arguments to prove they belong. That's how MU is perceived by UK right now.
Wait until the season gets underway. Best way I can describe it is KState syndrome. MU and KU were the dominant forces, but the Cat fans always rolled the Jack Hartman and the Richmond arguments to prove they belong. That's how MU is perceived by UK right now.
This post was edited on 10/12/12 at 10:52 pm
Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:53 pm to sms151t
quote:
They spend time researching all the competition and seem more informed about the opponents than its own fan base.
True Dat!
quote:
If Louisvulle would agree to it the IU ND UK UL double headers in the dome or Freedom were always fun also.
True Dat as well!
Cal dropping IU will come back to bite him in the arse. I might swap Purdue for Notre Dame as they have had better basketball of late. Even Butler or Xavier would be better than Notre Dame is now.
Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:54 pm to Mizzou Fan in Da ATX
quote:
They're not showing it to me tonight. Just happy to change standards and rearrange any and every stat they can to put themselves and their league in the best light. Which would make them no different than fans of any other team. But I haven't seen any of them trot out any incredibly well researched tidbits here. Just a lot of internally inconsistent assertions about what aspects of a season are most valuable, the only constant being that whatever makes UK or the SEC look best is what counts.
I mean what would you like to hear? That the SEC as a conference had a stronger strength of schedule last season then Big 12 teams on average? That no one in the SEC East (while defunct, you'll face by majority I believe) was ranked less then 40 in strength of schedule and your team was 29 spots below that by season's end (I'm going with RealTimeRPI here since it's free)?
Better yet, if you want to talk stats about the SEC in last season's tournament with just 4 bids we had the highest winning percentage in the tournament at roughly 77%. 10-3 record. The Big 12 with 6 teams was BEHIND the SEC in that stat with a record of 10-6 and 63%.
We had the same amount of teams in the Sweet 16 on as the Big 12 too in the 2012 tournament.
But then you want to talk shite about strength of schedule and quality of teams?
This post was edited on 10/12/12 at 10:56 pm
Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:56 pm to Cheese Grits
Those games I mentioned are about viewers not whose better really. Those games I listed are classics. UK or UL can't play Xavier or Butler, too much to lose if by chance they lose.
That's why I'm surprised cal dropped IU.
That's why I'm surprised cal dropped IU.
Posted on 10/12/12 at 10:58 pm to BluegrassBelle
Strength of schedule is a stupid measurement.
Anyone who pays too much attention to it doesn't pay much attention to detail.
Anyone who pays too much attention to it doesn't pay much attention to detail.
This post was edited on 10/12/12 at 10:59 pm
Posted on 10/12/12 at 11:00 pm to sms151t
quote:
That's why I'm surprised cal dropped IU.
IU took their ball and went home. Literally. They wanted it all on their terms despite the fact we entered the latest contract with them by appeasing what THEY wanted (no more neutral sites).
So instead we scheduled Duke, Louisville, Maryland to open the new Nets place, Baylor, and Notre Dame.
IU also refused to play Louisville who offered to fill our slot with them. But no one wants to talk about that. Too easy to just hate on Cal and Kentucky.
Posted on 10/12/12 at 11:00 pm to the808bass
I'm not reading all of this but Florida and Louisville were the 2 best teams we played all year.
Posted on 10/12/12 at 11:01 pm to the808bass
quote:
Strength of schedule is a stupid measurement.
Depends. In this case it's very much valid when the argument is a team built up their resume on a straw house schedule.
Posted on 10/12/12 at 11:02 pm to DayBowBow
quote:
I'm not reading all of this but Florida and Louisville were the 2 best teams we played all year.
The Mizzou fans are saying they weren't overrated last season. And that their schedule would've held up against anyone's in the country.
Posted on 10/12/12 at 11:03 pm to BluegrassBelle
I'm not hating on Cal just saying I was surprised they dropped them. That game needs to be played in Indy and Louisville not in Bloomington or Lexington. That's my opinion. Crean is to blame also.
Posted on 10/12/12 at 11:05 pm to sms151t
Fair enough.
And I'm done for the night. Enjoy.
And I'm done for the night. Enjoy.
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