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re: Mizzou fans: Do you think Pinkel needs to go?
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:05 pm to Jagd Tiger
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:05 pm to Jagd Tiger
quote:
you don't really "know" shite.
I sympathize because I've been the "get rid of the coach" guy super, super early. (Just explained that I wanted him gone in 2011 after getting blown out by Alabama and LSU his first year).
I've seen this before, and it's lonely but I think you've got the right idea with getting rid of him at this point. There are just some things that excuses can't be made for.
1
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:05 pm to Harryk15
quote:
And yet without JFF for the 2nd straight year we beat the Hogs. 4 in a row, we are undefeated against you since joining the SEC and we will finish above you in the SEC again for the 4th straight year. The hogs of all fans should be the last ones to talk.
DGAF. Holler at me when you actually go to Atlanta.
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:06 pm to Wtodd
quote:
Miz83 - But I at least got to experience the end of the Warren Powers years, before Babs ruined the athletic program.
I was there too. First game was '73 win over the nubs. Rode the Onofrio roller coaster. Babs killed us...without a doubt.
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:06 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
It's very plausible that you guys end 4 - 8. Muschamp numbers
4-8 is plausible and probable....heck, we're all friends here, 4-8 is a LOCK (pun intended)
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:07 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
It seems like the Pinkel process for recruiting has little room for error. The Mizzou staff can develop athletes and has proven that time and time again. However, when you're taking 2-3 star recruits and turning them into SEC caliber players, if the development doesn't occur the way it has in the past or you just misjudged a player as being able to be developed and he isn't, it really leaves you with a 2-3 star player. Maybe even a 2-3 star player that's angry he's not developing.
I think that's what we're seeing on the line and in the WR Corps.
I think that's what we're seeing on the line and in the WR Corps.
This post was edited on 10/26/15 at 2:09 pm
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:14 pm to Mizzeaux
quote:
It seems like the Pinkel process for recruiting has little room for error. The Mizzou staff can develop athletes and has proven that time and time again. However, when you're taking 2-3 star recruits and turning them into SEC caliber players, if the development doesn't occur the way it has in the past or you just misjudged a player as being able to be developed and he isn't, it really leaves you with a 2-3 star player. Maybe even a 2-3 star player that's angry he's not developing.
I think that's what we're seeing on the line and in the WR Corps.
The guy at WKU probably took in that caliber of talent and beat Vanderbilt. You have to know how to use your talent, period. Mizzou has: More money, better recruits, more resources and simply a better program than WKU.
That's where coaching flaws start to glare the most. Like us losing to Georgia Southern while consistently having 4 star recruits.
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:20 pm to Mizzeaux
quote:
I wouldn't mind Odom getting a HC job somewhere.
I wouldn't either, assuming he comes back! If Pinkel coaches 2 or 3 more years (I think anything more than 5 would be very surprising) I think Odom or Alex Grinch (assuming he keeps getting better as a coordinator in WSU's system) is our next head coach. Both pretty darn young, but good pedigrees and I think would stay at Mizzou for the long haul.
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:28 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
There's a lot of different factors in the WKU/Vandy thing, so I won't get into that.
As far as the Pinkel/Muschamp comparison, I'll say that Pinkel does have a little more of a record to work on than Muschamp. He's shown he can win on a consistent level.
He's really not a great game day coach as every Mizzou fan is keenly aware, but he has shown that he can develop a program from pretty much nothing and win at a pretty good clip. That record deserves a little more than calling for a hook less than a year from a division title and CG appearance.
As far as the Pinkel/Muschamp comparison, I'll say that Pinkel does have a little more of a record to work on than Muschamp. He's shown he can win on a consistent level.
He's really not a great game day coach as every Mizzou fan is keenly aware, but he has shown that he can develop a program from pretty much nothing and win at a pretty good clip. That record deserves a little more than calling for a hook less than a year from a division title and CG appearance.
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:36 pm to BluegrassBelle
Here's what happened at Mizzou.
Between 2011 and 2013 we recruited 4 WRs and 4 RBs.
Yea, over a course of 3 years we took a total of 8 skill position players.
Now we have no one with any experience outside of Hansbrough and he is injured.
The Senior offensive line was supposed to be great, it's been terrible.
Pinkel is to blame for the recruiting gaffaw, but this defense will be great next year. We only lose 3 starters and the ENTIRE DLine should return barring some unexpected draft rankings.
Offense will be good in a couple years. I expect 7-5 or 8-4 next year and then another SECCG run in 2017.
Between 2011 and 2013 we recruited 4 WRs and 4 RBs.
Yea, over a course of 3 years we took a total of 8 skill position players.
Now we have no one with any experience outside of Hansbrough and he is injured.
The Senior offensive line was supposed to be great, it's been terrible.
Pinkel is to blame for the recruiting gaffaw, but this defense will be great next year. We only lose 3 starters and the ENTIRE DLine should return barring some unexpected draft rankings.
Offense will be good in a couple years. I expect 7-5 or 8-4 next year and then another SECCG run in 2017.
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:38 pm to Mizzeaux
quote:
I'm not saying this as a reason to get rid of Pinkel, but he has made a living winning OOC games.
he's also made a living beating up on the big dogs like Iowa State, KSU, and kentucky and vandy of course, well at least SOME of the time..
quote:
He has earned the chance to turn it around.
I don't necessarily disagree, but this really goes back to the point, we don't have to wonder what his "turn it around" plan is going to be, he's never fired an OC and he's not going to start at this late time of his career. His "coach speak" really says it all, it's always a "we need to play better" meaning exactly that, not "I need to coach better, and run an offense better", we already know he won't accept the responsibility that coaching actually isn't up to snuff, it's always on the players to play better.
The fanboies yakking about "heads must roll" and "the OC has to go" are cute and all but the idea this will actually happen is far fetched, it's not part of "what we do", to make coaching changes. That's the same thing as admitting the coaching isn't getting it done, and that is NOT what we do. So we're back to square one, and how many years of "pretending" things are going to actually turn around do you want to go through?
This post was edited on 10/26/15 at 2:40 pm
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:40 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Something to consider with Brohm and WKU is that he has talent on those squads in the form of P5 transfers or kids coming out of JUCO. He also has a slate of Petrino guys there too. He's a good OC but I'd be hesitant to hire him right now until he's been at WKU a little longer.
ETA: He may very well have more talent offensive than Vandy.
ETA: He may very well have more talent offensive than Vandy.
This post was edited on 10/26/15 at 2:42 pm
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:44 pm to BluegrassBelle
Our offense is predicated on wide receivers who can get themselves open, or are open because they are fricking gigantic/muscular. Our current crop of wide receivers isn't gigantic, and because they can't get themselves open they have to fight DB's for contested footballs. The wideouts aren't winning those battles.
We either need to change plans offensively or recruit offensive talent differently, if we do either of those we are golden.
We either need to change plans offensively or recruit offensive talent differently, if we do either of those we are golden.
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:48 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
There are TONS of coaches out there who do more with less, like Mac.
That isn't a fair comparison AT ALL. Like not even close.
UF's squad is filled with one top 20 recruiting class after another. Muschamp wasn't failing because he couldn't recruit talent, he failed because that talent UNDERPERFORMED. Mac walked into a program with more talent on the roster than 85+% of all the rosters in college football including Mizzou. He just got them to live up to potential (so far, Muschamp looked great early too).
Pinkel on the other hand hasn't had a single top 20 class I don't think. Maybe he did and I missed it, but overall the last three coaches at UF all got better talent BY DEFAULT than Pinkel has been able to recruit to a program that just won two division titles in the exact same division. The Mizzou job isn't on the same PLANET of difficulty as the UF job is.
If Mizzou fires Pinkel, unless the next guy is a Fuente who can do amazing things with jack squat talent (and they aren't getting him with so many open jobs), then that program will regress FOR CERTAIN. The other option would be to get a guy at Mizzou that can recruit a class every year in the top 15 despite the results on the field to rebuild Pinkel's roster into one that any average coach can win with. But I don't think that guy exists, normally the same programs recruit the top classes every year for a reason (because they have the prestige and facilities that Mizzou doesn't have).
If Mizzou was really serious about getting rid of Pinkel then TODAY they need to bust out the black AMEX the SEC gave them and start buying more competitive facilities for the next guy to recruit with. Then once those are build at that point maybe consider forcing Pinkel to retire. Pushing him out the door with their current level of talent and their current facilities is like handing a baby a loaded gun.
Posted on 10/26/15 at 2:59 pm to cardboardboxer
lol Mizzou's 2015 recruiting class was #18.
The issue is Missouri has pretty average high school football talent so Pinkel has to recruit where everyone else recruits.
2 years Mizzou is going to be a contender. I see next year as a better year but the offense will need at least another season to mature.
The issue is Missouri has pretty average high school football talent so Pinkel has to recruit where everyone else recruits.
2 years Mizzou is going to be a contender. I see next year as a better year but the offense will need at least another season to mature.
Posted on 10/26/15 at 3:01 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
. You have to know how to use your talent, period. Mizzou has: More money, better recruits, more resources and simply a better program than WKU.
That's where coaching flaws start to glare the most. Like us losing to Georgia Southern while consistently having 4 star recruits.
yea that's what makes it cute for a kentucky fan to show up and tell us we can't be better (than kentucky)..
because we're, you know... Mizzou.
Posted on 10/26/15 at 3:03 pm to TigerCruise
quote:
The issue is Missouri has pretty average high school football talent so Pinkel has to recruit where everyone else recruits.
if that's true then he's been lucky as hell that Mo has average kids like Sheldon Richardson, Maclin, Ealy, and now kids like Lock and TBJ. Programs in states with far FAR less talent have done more.
Posted on 10/26/15 at 3:26 pm to BluegrassBelle
This thread is a jagd tiger wet dream. I see has not failed to deliver.
Posted on 10/26/15 at 3:29 pm to Jagd Tiger
quote:
This fanbase sometimes(often) is amusingly childlike in its bewilderment and ambivalence.
quote:
Jagd Tiger
Posted on 10/26/15 at 3:35 pm to TigerCruise
quote:
lol Mizzou's 2015 recruiting class was #18.
Ok, top 20 but not elite by any means. I bet the five year average isn't top 20.
quote:
The issue is Missouri has pretty average high school football talent so Pinkel has to recruit where everyone else recruits.
No, not really. Look at what Tenn does- recruits out of its state. I imagine an elite recruiter at Mizzou would clean out Illinois and make a dent into Ohio.
Posted on 10/26/15 at 3:45 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
I've seen this before, and it's lonely but I think you've got the right idea with getting rid of him at this point. There are just some things that excuses can't be made for.
There are number of scenarios that would make it a different case, like "he's a young coach that needs time to learn" or, "he's just getting his first start as a HC" or "the program he JUST inherited was a shambles", or "his awesome coaching staff was just hired out from under him and the new guys need time to gel".
Yet none of these are the case.
This post was edited on 10/26/15 at 3:47 pm
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