Started By
Message
re: If Penn State Scandal occurred in the SEC , would we support a ban?
Posted on 7/13/12 at 10:28 am to Bulskinator
Posted on 7/13/12 at 10:28 am to Bulskinator
quote:
Would you be willing to call for a temporary ban on the football program to right the wrongs?
Idk. Seems like you'd be punishing the wrong ppl. Everyone that covered it up at PSU was either fired and facing criminal charges, is dead, or in jail.
1
Posted on 7/13/12 at 10:34 am to crimsonsaint
quote:
Idk. Seems like you'd be punishing the wrong ppl. Everyone that covered it up at PSU was either fired and facing criminal charges, is dead, or in jail.
That's the problem created by judicial persons. When they commit crimes or wrongdoings throught their actions, other people also get the brunt of the punishment. Take Enron. Skilling, Fastow, and others got punishments but that didn't stop the SEC from going after the entity, not that much remained.
Let's put a hypothetical that is a bit easier to understand. If a corporation or school was responsible for enabling and covering up a murder for hire scheme, the people responsible would go down, but I don't think people would be clamoring to save the entity itself. Maybe I'm wrong on that.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 10:35 am to Bulskinator
instead of the death penalty, I'd like to see them have sanctions like you can't imagine. In addition to only 7 or 8 a scholarships a year, only 50 players could be on the team (including practice) at any time for three years and no bowl game.
Imagine some team like Indiana going into "Happy Valley" and winning 47-3.
Imagine some team like Indiana going into "Happy Valley" and winning 47-3.
This post was edited on 7/13/12 at 10:41 am
Posted on 7/13/12 at 10:38 am to I-59 Tiger
Even in 2003, PSU destroyed Indiana 52-7. They may need more help than that.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 10:45 am to therick711
quote:
Even in 2003
Full compliment of scholarships and players.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:09 am to BamaGradinTn
quote:
I say it's not a football issue because as far as the university itself is concerned it's an issue of governance of the school by its administration and board. If a football coach screws up and you fire him, you had a football issue and you fixed it. When you have a former football coach...or any university employee...who is a pedophile and you cover for him and continue to let him have access to your campus, you have a governance problem with the university.
The Football complex was the breeding ground - a Football coach committed the crime - a Football coach witnessed the crime.
The HEAD Football coach had knowledge of the crime - the perv was allowed to remain in contact and was allowed to use the Football complex to futher his pedophilia for years without any hinderance at all from the HEAD Football coach.
The coverup was to protect PSU Football and the HEAD Football Coach.
I am completly incapable of removing "football" from this.
When you say governance by the school administration - Do you think the Finance committee was part of the coverup? How 'bout the Board members, faculty and staff at PSU - where they part of the mass coverup as well?
It was allowed to happen in the football facilities, by a football coach, and was covered up for the benefit of the football program.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:11 am to RT1941
"Tell him he can coach here as long as I'm coach here."
-Joe Paterno
Seems like a football matter to me
-Joe Paterno
Seems like a football matter to me
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:12 am to therick711
quote:No deterrence is both for the offender and others. As to the offender, the term used is specific deterrence. As to others, the term is general deterrence.
Deterrence refers to the social goal of preventing other would be offenders. Preventing rescidvism is aimed at preventing the same offender.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:13 am to RT1941
Paterno - Head FOOTBALL Coach
Sandusky - Asst FOOTBALL Coach
It's a football issue as well as university.
This isn't hard to understand.
Sandusky - Asst FOOTBALL Coach
It's a football issue as well as university.
This isn't hard to understand.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:14 am to Tammany Tom
Your post highlights that this isn't a football issue. It is much bigger and more serious than that and should be dealt with by authorities much more serious than a sports governing body.
Acting as if I am condoning the actions of the creeps by claiming this isn't a football issue is asinine and pandering.
Acting as if I am condoning the actions of the creeps by claiming this isn't a football issue is asinine and pandering.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:16 am to Daigeaux
quote:If Paterno beat his wife, no one would be calling for the NCAA to step in. It is a crime and should be handled as such.
Paterno - Head FOOTBALL Coach
Sandusky - Asst FOOTBALL Coach
It's a football issue as well as university.
Like I said, it won't bother me one bit if the NCAA hands down the DP, but that isn't their role for situations like this.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:17 am to therick711
quote:No, bu they wouldn't be asking the NCAA to do anything about it. It is much bigger and more serious than the NCAA.
et's put a hypothetical that is a bit easier to understand. If a corporation or school was responsible for enabling and covering up a murder for hire scheme, the people responsible would go down, but I don't think people would be clamoring to save the entity itself. Maybe I'm wrong on that.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:27 am to WDE24
quote:
No deterrence is both for the offender and others. As to the offender, the term used is specific deterrence. As to others, the term is general deterrence.
You have identified they can be (imprecisely) used as synonyms, not that they are the same thing. The fact that two different categories exist to explain the phenomenon proves they are not the same thing. Further the fact that my post was using two different terms to describe different goals shows they aren't the same thing.
This post was edited on 7/13/12 at 11:29 am
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:33 am to therick711
Usually, when the term deterrence is used without specificity in the legal world it refers to both specific and general.
Anyway, I don't see where the goals you listed have not and are not being accomplished without the NCAA stretching the bounds of its role and authority to deal with this situation. I just think the NCAA isn't the right forum to deal with something so serious.
Again, I see why people are asking for this and don't really care, I am just of the opinion that the NCAA should stay out of it.
Anyway, I don't see where the goals you listed have not and are not being accomplished without the NCAA stretching the bounds of its role and authority to deal with this situation. I just think the NCAA isn't the right forum to deal with something so serious.
Again, I see why people are asking for this and don't really care, I am just of the opinion that the NCAA should stay out of it.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:36 am to WDE24
quote:
No, bu they wouldn't be asking the NCAA to do anything about it. It is much bigger and more serious than the NCAA.
If the offender was a lawyer for instance, his state bar would likely disbar him. State bars are not criminal courts. They don't have the job of punishing. Yet, they take action when it is appropriate similarly to a criminal court. The same standard exists for CPAs, Architects, and doctors. The NCAA or the accreditation entity would be doing no different than what happens in every other professional walk of life. Heck felons are disenfranchised.
ETA: WDE I know you don't care. I just like the give and take. I'll shut it down if you don't want to continue the debate.
This post was edited on 7/13/12 at 11:37 am
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:45 am to Bulskinator
Listened to that USA Today sports reporter Christine Brennan yesterday...she's advocating a year long PSU football ban ! That's just idiotic and typical of an ultra liberal media member....how does shutting down football, rectify the wrongs of the top admins. and head coach ?
This is a case of willful/criminal neglect as well as cover-up...the GUILTY parties are mostly identified so punish them not the current players/coaches, who had nothing to do with this prolonged and sordid episode. She's thinking/acting just like NCAA enforcement often does by punishing the innocent vs. the guilty !
I wonder if anyone has thought about how all the other sports programs would be funded if PSU football were shut down for a year ?
IDIOTS I tell ya...pure IDIOTS !
This is a case of willful/criminal neglect as well as cover-up...the GUILTY parties are mostly identified so punish them not the current players/coaches, who had nothing to do with this prolonged and sordid episode. She's thinking/acting just like NCAA enforcement often does by punishing the innocent vs. the guilty !
I wonder if anyone has thought about how all the other sports programs would be funded if PSU football were shut down for a year ?
IDIOTS I tell ya...pure IDIOTS !
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:45 am to therick711
quote:Yes, because that is their role.
If the offender was a lawyer for instance, his state bar would likely disbar him. State bars are not criminal courts. They don't have the job of punishing. Yet, they take action when it is appropriate similarly to a criminal court. The same standard exists for CPAs, Architects, and doctors.
It is not the NCAA's role here. They would be stretching and expanding their level of oversight far beyond what it has been or was intended to be. They struggle enough as it is, they don't need to be getting involved where they don't really belong and aren't really needed.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:46 am to WDE24
quote:
Your post highlights that this isn't a football issue. It is much bigger and more serious than that and should be dealt with by authorities much more serious than a sports governing body. Acting as if I am condoning the actions of the creeps by claiming this isn't a football issue is asinine and pandering.
The actual criminal acts were committed by a very perverted individual. The crimes that this person committed have resulted in his arrest, conviction, and imprisonment.
That is only one part of this story.
The other part of this story is called the cover-up.
Watergate was a simple burglary by a few individuals of an apartment in the Watergate Apartment Complex. The crime itself was not that big, but the cover-up resulted in the removal of a sitting United States President.
The cover-up, the continued allowance of criminal acts to occur on Penn State property in Penn State Football facilities is another major part of this sordid story. The purpose of the cover-up was done to preserve the "integrity" of the Penn State Football Program.
The crimes, themselves, were a criminal issue that has been dealt with.
But.......the other major "issue" or crime in this matter is the cover-up that has still yet to be dealt with properly. The VP and AD have been indicted on perjury. Both, along with the President, will hopefully be indicted on aiding and abetting criminal activity.
The school and football program must pay as well. You cannot have the massive cover-up and continued allowance of an ex-employee to have full access to your football facilities to commit his crimes and not pay for it.
This is a major criminal issue and a major university football issue. The cover-up was done only to preserve the reputation of the football program and University. So, yes, the NCAA, the Big Ten, and any other governing body should step in and punish the football program that allowed a criminal full access to rape children in their football facilities and not turn in him only to preserve their precious reputation.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:49 am to Tammany Tom
quote:The school will pay mightily. As it should. It just isn't the role of the NCAA to deal with it.
The school and football program must pay as well.
quote:The football program didn't allow the access, certain members of the administration did. And they are being dealt with. Additionally, because those administrators were representatives of the school, the school will be paying millions of dollars to the victims that were not protected as a result of the schools cover up.
So, yes, the NCAA, the Big Ten, and any other governing body should step in and punish the football program that allowed a criminal full access to rape children in their football facilities and not turn in him only to preserve their precious reputation.
Everyone just wants a pound of flesh, which is understandable, but it is my opinion that this matter is beyond what the NCAA's purview should be.
This post was edited on 7/13/12 at 11:51 am
Posted on 7/13/12 at 11:50 am to WDE24
quote:
Yes, because that is their role.
It isn't their role. Their role in most states is statutorily defined as making sure that an applicant displays minimal competency. It has nothing to do with punishing wrong doers who are licensed once they become members. They engage in that because it is politically the correct move and some professional licensing entities have, over time, actually amended their rules to provide for such a power. Others do it without regard to what their rules provide. TMYK
Page 4 of 6
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News