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re: If Penn State Scandal occurred in the SEC , would we support a ban?
Posted on 7/13/12 at 7:34 am to Tammany Tom
Posted on 7/13/12 at 7:34 am to Tammany Tom
They should have to sit out this season and give the players the option to transfer with out sitting out. This is a tragedy that could have been easily avoided had Joe Paterno shown the courage to do what was right the first damn time. Damn him.
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Posted on 7/13/12 at 7:58 am to TigerFanNKaty
I don't think the repeat violator rule should hold any weight in this situation because they repeatedly went through efforts to conceal the whole situation many different times over a period of over a decade. Sandusky was watching a game from a suit in beaver stadium 2 days after the grand jury indictment for crying out loud.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 8:20 am to OBReb6
Those of you who take the stance solely that it's not right to punish the current players, are not thinking this through. Those recruits signed on to what they THOUGHT was a great institution that they have always dreamed of playing for. Now these kids are faced with being the kids who play for PSU with this horrible tarnished image. Some may elect to transfer of allowed to play immediately, I'm sure some may not. However, that would be THEIR choice.
What happened involved the administration and the athletic department and ruined lives. It's disgusting to think that an institution that allowed a man to rape boys would not be punished, and by punished I mean ALL departments involved.
I would fully support the DP at my school if this happened.
What happened involved the administration and the athletic department and ruined lives. It's disgusting to think that an institution that allowed a man to rape boys would not be punished, and by punished I mean ALL departments involved.
I would fully support the DP at my school if this happened.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 8:36 am to hoginthesw
Penn St. football should be a memory from this point on. The horrific scope of the shite that went on and that was covered up is mind boggling. Pull the plug on the program. Here is a funny a buddy made.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 8:46 am to blzr
quote:
Why? This has nothing to do with the players and coaches there right now.
It isn't about them if you were imposing a penalty. It is about the program allowing, enabling, and then covering up a pretty heinous crime. The message would be, you thought the program was too powerful and above reproach to do the right thing, perhaps the school needs a break from having the program to put things back into perspective.
#cultureofreverencesurroundingthefootballprogram
This post was edited on 7/13/12 at 8:57 am
Posted on 7/13/12 at 8:47 am to Bulskinator
I don't think it is a football issue per se and not an NCAA issue. Let the courts do their thing.
This post was edited on 7/13/12 at 8:50 am
Posted on 7/13/12 at 8:48 am to Bulskinator
I would definitely keep Bama in the league to enjoy beating the shite out of them while players avoid that place like the plague.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 8:51 am to diddydirtyAubie
I would support the DP if this happened at my school. Start over in a few years
Posted on 7/13/12 at 8:56 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
Sandusky is in Jail. Paterno is dead. Most of the leaders in this report will never work for Penn St again. None of those guys will be a part of Penn St football ever again, so how does it make sense to punish Penn St football? Thats like putting a murder's entire family under house arrest for 2 years after hes convicted. Makes zero sense.
No. In this case the institution as a legal person had a role to play in this matter. While the individuals should be punished, the legal person also failed through the failings of its agents. Penn State as an institution doesn't get to skate by saying it was the employees' fault. The institution acts through its employees.
This point has nothing to do with the NCAA portion of the debate. It is offered soley to show that the institution is culpable beyond what happens to its agents. More trouble for the institution is warranted, necessary, and expected--whether from a court of law, the NCAA, or an accrediting entity.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 9:04 am to therick711
quote:This is true and the institution will pay out the nose for it. As it should. I just don't see where this is an NCAA or conference issue. It is a law enforcement, court and university issue.
No. In this case the institution as a legal person had a role to play in this matter. While the individuals should be punished, the legal person also failed through the failings of its agents. Penn State as an institution doesn't get to skate by saying it was the employees' fault. The institution acts through its employees.
It wouldn't upset me if they got the DP, but I think it is unnecessary and not likely to serve much of a purpose other than to give the public the pound of flesh they are craving for as a result of the awful crimes committed.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 9:12 am to WDE24
quote:
It wouldn't upset me if they got the DP, but I think it is unnecessary and not likely to serve much of a purpose other than to give the public the pound of flesh they are craving for as a result of the awful crimes committed.
Deterrence is a purpose. Rehabilitation is a purpose. Preventing recidivism is a purpose. All of these would be served by a one year ban. It would also be more effective than any fine, civil judgment, or censure. I'm not saying the DP is warranted or coming, but let's not pretend it wouldn't serve social goals not only at State College, but everywhere.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 9:15 am to therick711
quote:I would argue that is already being accomplished.
Deterrence is a purpose.
quote:School eliminated all involved and had an outside expert do an investigation with no meddling form the school to determine the facts. Seems like this is being accomplished as well.
Rehabilitation is a purpose.
quote:That is the same thing as deterrence and is already being accomplished.
Preventing recidivism is a purpose.
quote:It would be more harsh, but I'm not sure more effective.
It would also be more effective than any fine, civil judgment, or censure.
quote:I don't think it accomplishes much.
but let's not pretend it wouldn't serve social goals not only at State College, but everywhere.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 9:19 am to WDE24
quote:
That is the same thing as deterrence and is already being accomplished.
It is not the same thing. Deterrence refers to the social goal of preventing other would be offenders. Preventing rescidvism is aimed at preventing the same offender. You would deter everyone with a harsh punishment that suggests that others would not do the behavior for fear of the harshness of the penalty. You would prevent the same offender from committing the same crime by isolating the most effective punishment for that particular person or institution.
Here, the Death Penalty would serve both of those goals as other programs would never mess with such a scheme and the culture of reverence would get smashed. Always enjoy debating you, WDE.
This post was edited on 7/13/12 at 9:21 am
Posted on 7/13/12 at 9:35 am to WDE24
quote:
don't think it is a football issue per se and not an NCAA issue. Let the courts do their thing.
Alabama had to forfeit an entire seasons worth of games and go on probation simply because they played a player in a bowl game that had signed a contract with an agent a few weeks to early.
Ohio State had to vacate wins and go on probation simply because a few players went to a tatoo parlor and sold their rings and a few memorabilia.
Auburn went on probation because they gave a kid $300 a month, bought him some steaks, and paid some of his car payments.
But......... A Head Football Coach, Athletic Director, and President of a Major University chose not to turn in a known child rapist to proper athorities, because it would damage the reputaion of their football program is not a football issue and is not a NCAA issue.
A Head Football Coach, AD, and University President not only didn't turn in a known child rapist, but continued to allow him free rein of their football facilities and University to execute his crimes. These officials continued to invite this known child rapist to bowl games, to thier suites, and allowed this known child rapist to travel with young boys and didn't blink an eye.
A Head Football Coach, AD, and President allowed a known child rapist use of their football facilities to run football camps for his "charity" that this known child rapist used to find his victims.
These very powerful men allowed a known child rapist to do all these things on their campus and in their facilities for one an only one reason: To maintain the "integrity" of their beloved Football program and University.
But.............. This is not a Football issue.
Damn!!!!!!!!!!
Posted on 7/13/12 at 9:43 am to Tammany Tom
Well said. I don't think the DP is coming for them, but if the NCAA gives them a penalty of some sort, it will be completely justified. Especially in light of the 40 years of sanctimonious horseshite we had to put up with from Paterno; PSU; and now, incredibly, breathlessly, Jay Paterno.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 9:51 am to Tammany Tom
Based on the facts that we know, at least one "football" coach was involved directly with child molestation, more than one "football" coach had knowledge of the molestation, at least one "football" coach witnessed molestation/child rape.
The head "football" coach was not only aware of the crimes, he chose to cover it up and allowed it to continue in order to protect the "football" program.
Acts of molestation and child rape took place in the "football" facilities. And after a "football" coach witnessed the rape and reported it, the pervert was allowed to continue using the "football" facilites to further is heinous activits and to prey on young boys.
Somehow the word "Football" appears way too much througout the above facts for this not to be a Football issue.....
The head "football" coach was not only aware of the crimes, he chose to cover it up and allowed it to continue in order to protect the "football" program.
Acts of molestation and child rape took place in the "football" facilities. And after a "football" coach witnessed the rape and reported it, the pervert was allowed to continue using the "football" facilites to further is heinous activits and to prey on young boys.
Somehow the word "Football" appears way too much througout the above facts for this not to be a Football issue.....
Posted on 7/13/12 at 9:58 am to RT1941
quote:
Somehow the word "Football" appears way too much througout the above facts for this not to be a Football issue.....
Posted on 7/13/12 at 10:14 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
wildtigercat93
If Penn State Scandal occurred in the SEC , would we support a ban?
This isnt really a football issue so i dont see how they could give them the death penalty
You're right...it isn't a football issue. It's a university issue. Give the whole university the death penalty. Yank their accreditation and make them have to lose access to all federal dollars. Thousand of students would transfer, thousands of incoming freshmen would enroll elsewhere. Sure, those students will suffer inconvenience...but they will still get college educations from good schools. You really want to make the higher-ups at Penn State and the university itself suffer? Nothing could hurt them worse than losing access to federal dollars.
This post was edited on 7/13/12 at 10:17 am
Posted on 7/13/12 at 10:20 am to Master of Sinanju
quote:
Master of Sinanju
If Penn State Scandal occurred in the SEC , would we support a ban?
quote:
Somehow the word "Football" appears way too much througout the above facts for this not to be a Football issue.....
I say it's not a football issue because as far as the university itself is concerned it's an issue of governance of the school by its administration and board. If a football coach screws up and you fire him, you had a football issue and you fixed it. When you have a former football coach...or any university employee...who is a pedophile and you cover for him and continue to let him have access to your campus, you have a governance problem with the university.
Posted on 7/13/12 at 10:23 am to Bulskinator
In response to OP. Hell yes I would support a ban. Does not matter which school. It was Institutional at P.State in which Joe PA. was involved. Sucks for the current players, I hope that IF the NCAA does bring sanctions they allow the current players to transfer w/o having to sit out.
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