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re: "Hugh Freeze Manages to Take and Shed Responsibility in One Nonapology"

Posted on 6/1/16 at 3:50 pm to
Posted by OceanMan
Member since Mar 2010
20010 posts
Posted on 6/1/16 at 3:50 pm to
quote:

Then why the frick do they not get the majority or all the kids if we are the only school paying them?


quote:

Or does everyone offer kids money and in the end, the kid chooses which situation is better for them, not their bank accounts?


It is hard to see exactly where you are going with all of this.
Posted by tigerinridgeland
Mississippi
Member since Aug 2006
7636 posts
Posted on 6/1/16 at 3:53 pm to
quote:

Does this clown consider this evidence? I hate what journalism has become. While I certainly think it is cause of investigation, it is not evidence, it is hearsay, and if it were admissible as evidence then all it would take


Hearsay rules don't apply to the NCAA. Its procedures are not subject to the rules of evidence applicable in court. Moreover, there are exceptions to the rule by which any reasonably competent lawyer would be able to get this information in the record in a court. The hearsay rules are fairly complex and arcane, not nearly as simple as the general public believes.
Posted by OceanMan
Member since Mar 2010
20010 posts
Posted on 6/1/16 at 4:13 pm to
quote:

Hearsay rules don't apply to the NCAA. Its procedures are not subject to the rules of evidence applicable in court.


Yeah, I understand that the NCAA is not the court. I also understand that this is about the public damning someone based on hearsay, rather than using real evidence in an actual investigation. Freeze's comments were in response to the Allegations, and his part in them, so I don't see how this "evidence" brings anything new to the table.

My comments were not about relying on heresay in an investigation, it is about writers piling on opinions as facts, or attributing hearsay as ultimate evidence that someone has done something wrong.

quote:

The hearsay rules are fairly complex and arcane, not nearly as simple as the general public believes.



Be that as it may, "hearsay" is not a difficult concept to understand, and is not used as primary evidence in convictions. Charges? Sure, but not evidence. You could also corroborate evidence with hearsay, but the point is that it is lazy to start with someone else's word, and never go any further in substantiating it. We are posting about this article, but it is literally no better/more informative than anything you could read on this board.

To be clear, I am not arguing whether this info is relevant (getting the info on record in court), I am arguing that he isn't bringing anything new to the discussion, or presenting additional facts, which is why writers exist in the first place
Posted by tigerinridgeland
Mississippi
Member since Aug 2006
7636 posts
Posted on 6/1/16 at 8:26 pm to
If this appears to be too long and technical, jump to the last paragraph.

Hearsay is a rule of evidence peculiar to common law systems. It is unknown in equally sophisticated systems. It is a result of the lack of trust that judges have in the capacity of jurors to give appropriate weight to different sorts of evidence. Other systems that do not use common law style jurors do not see the need for such a rule. There is nothing sacred or particularly compelling about the rule that would mandate its application outside of a courtroom, particularly outside a common law court with a jury. In other systems what we call hearsay is routinely admitted. It is up the fact finder to guage the reliability of the evidence in light of all of the circumstances. That is exactly how most of us operate in real life when making judgments about the conduct of others when we were not eye witnesses ourselves, at least when we are not on a jury in court.

Since the NCAA does not use juries, there is no particularly compelling reason that it must or should use the hearsay rule. My point being hearsay is a technical rule, not one necessarily compelled by logic or reason. So condemning someone for relying on hearsay especially in a non-legal setting in expressing an opinion is overreaction. If the surrounding circumstances indicate that the hearsay is particularly unreliable, certainly, one should discount its value and veracity. But that is not the case here. The author of the article is not bound by the hearsay rule and is entitled to use what ever evidence is at hand in making his conclusion. It is up to the reader to determine if his conclusion is reasonable. If it isn't, the author loses the respect of his readers and damages his credibility.

In this particular case, there is no genuine dispute as to what was said in the text exchange. The veracity seems to have been admitted by Ole Miss. Millions heard Tunsil's now infamous answer In the press conference. The texts certainly allow for the drawing of an inference of improper behavior. What is not yet known is the exact context. We don't know whether this was an ongoing situation involving multiiple payments, which one may infer, or if it was part of an ongoing exchange related to a single request. Ole Miss may indeed have an explanation that will show that it did nothing improper. But the implication at this point is not favorable.

The author of the article drew inferences from information that is reliable. No one has yet disputed that the texts are genuine or the statement was not made by Tunsil. The flaw may be that the information is incomplete, not that the information we have is itself unreliable. It isn't hearsay that is the problem, but the lack of complete information. Perhaps he should have qualified his conclusion to allow for possible additional information that might affect the conclusion because the information we have so far is incomplete. That is an entirely different matter from the hearsay issue.
This post was edited on 6/1/16 at 8:35 pm
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